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Disclaimer:
This podcast provides general information and entertainment only. It’s not a substitute for medical advice. Please consult your healthcare provider about any health concerns or questions specific to your pregnancy and personal situation.

About Hilary, The Pregnancy Nurse®
Hilary is a registered nurse with over 20 years of labor and delivery experience. Since 1997, she’s helped thousands of pregnant patients navigate the ups and downs of pregnancy, including common concerns like ligament pain. Her mission is to empower families with clear, expert information for a smoother pregnancy journey.

Timestamps:

00:00 Understanding unexpected pain experiences

03:46 Understanding pregnancy ligament pain

07:08 Identifying pain and when to visit

The post From Sharp Stabs to Relief: Navigating Ligament Pain in Pregnancy with a Pro Nurse – 266 appeared first on Pulling Curls.

In case we haven’t met yet hello, I’m Hilary – many people know me as The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of L&D experience plus three kids of my own. I have read the textbooks — and I’m here to tell you this skill is likely much more important.

Before we get started, grab my best labor tips right here:

What YOU Need Before Birth

You need the ability to make choices for yourself in the moment.

Yes, a birth plan is nice. I love that you’re at least thinking about the choices you’ll make at birth (and how to communicate them) but the reality is that it’s really hard to make these types of choices in advance.

You don’t want to be induced, but if baby stops growing in the womb and needs to come out — would you choose to do it?

You don’t want a cesarean, but if baby heart rate is dropping a lot during your labor — would you choose it?

Somehow I think people think they can “manifest” these things not happening to them, but I swear the more you dig in your heels before labor the more Mother Nature just shows us she’s in charge (which, believe me, I hate in my own life).

So, you need to learn how to make choices in the moment. How do you do that? Frankly, people aren’t often the best at it. When we come to those big choices in the labor room sometimes I just get a lot of blinks and they say “whatever you think.”…. but I think it is something we can work on in ourselves…

Here’s 3 tips to strengthen making good choices in the moment:

Make Choices in Prenatal Appointments

Many prenatal appointments just flow. You’re not having to make choices during it.

But, when your provider offers a test or an ultrasound ask them why?

Sure, you’re likely going to get that ultrasound, but ask why?

And then make the choice to get that ultrasound. Don’t let them make that choice for you.

Honestly, from the outside it looks very similar to everyone else, this is really something that happens inside of you.

Here’s a few more examples:

They say to take a prenatal vitamin, and you ask if they have one they can recommend or which vitamins you should be checking in the one you have — and you make the choice which one is best for you.

They say you need an ultrasound in your 3rd trimester — and you ask why? Baby seems a little small, and they just want to be sure baby is growing well. That sounds smart to you, so you make the choice to have that ultrasound.

And then the choices get bigger….

Baby is measuring small and they recommend an induction. And again — you get to ask questions and make the choice.

• Maybe you think you could wait and get another ultrasound to see if baby continues to look that way
• Or, you think it is best to get induced

Either way, you make the choice in the moment.

BTW, I have a whole post on what to do when baby is measuring big that teaches this skill also!

SO often online I see people saying “I an choosing to not have an induction” when they’re mid-pregnancy and I just think you can’t make choices like that early on. Things change, you change, baby changes. You have to LEARN to make choices in the moment.

Don’t Avoid Choices

This is one I see a lot. My doctor said I “had to get an ultrasound”. When I very well know that doctor wasn’t picking you up and carrying you to that ultrasound.

I can’t TELL you how often I hear people say they were “forced” to get an induction.

And I get it, they felt out of control and like they didn’t have choices.

But I also see them avoiding the choice. They’re letting that doctor make the choice for them.

Honestly, making choices is hard. I also run an organizing class (because, why not) — and I see the pain of decluttering. It’s constant choices of if you keep something, or let it go (and possibly need it down the road).

Most people ignore those choices by just keeping a lot of stuff in their house that they don’t want (and then suffering the consequences when they can’t put things away or find what they need).

But in the medical field, people ignore those choices and just say their provider “forced” them into something.

So, today I want you to promise to start making choices.

• Ask questions from experts to get the information you need
• Make a choice
• Be aware you could also change your mind if things change (I love that part)

I actually see a fair amount of people get a doula to help them avoid making choices. They think the doula will make choices for them when in reality a good doula just helps you with the process I outlined above about getting the information. A good doula does not make choices for you. No more than a bad doctor making choices for you.

Get the Basics

Ok, I said you didn’t need to read the textbook. And I stand by that.

That is really why you have a doctor — because they understand all of that, and can make recommendations based off what’s going on with you and what research shows. That is their job.

But, having some basic information really puts you miles ahead.

Things like:

• Understanding 3rd trimester testing so you can go more in depth about why your provider wants it for YOU.
• How to labor at home for a while, what to do and how to make the choice to go to the hospital
• How to use natural pain management either instead of an epidural, or in conjunction with it
• How inductions happen, so you know a bit more about what you’re facing

I’m not saying you need to know about the chemo and baroreceptors and what’s happening with your oxygenation. That’s not your job.

But you need to know the basics.

For such a long time we’ve felt like Lamaze was what we needed to prepare for birth. While those classes were very helpful, they’ve somehow been boiled down to just natural pain management.

And ultimately, they’re not helping you with the ONE skill you need — making choices when the time comes.

I’m not saying that natural pain management isn’t important. I’m saying that it’s just part of the picture.

Now, where do you find something that can help you get the basics? I recommend this class.

It’s totally doable—just the basics take around 3 hours.

It’s taught by an unbiased expert you can trust (SO important in this field)

It’s also budget-friendly—unlike a lot of other classes.

Oh, and did I mention it’s going to help your partner support you in this big skill? You won’t be alone!

You can even get started today right here!

Ok, how are you on this big skill? Is it something you could get better at? Honestly, I think we could all get better at this skill — and the more we all improve with it, I think the better healthcare will be!

The post You Don’t Need to Know Everything—Just This Before Birth appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Count the Kicks App — It is free and available in 20+ languages. Start using daily at 28 weeks or 26 weeks if high-risk or pregnant with multiples. It makes doing a daily kick count easy. 77% of app users report that using the app helped decrease their anxiety about the well-being of their baby. 84% said it helped to increase their feelings of bonding. The app can be a great way to involve your partner or your baby’s older siblings.

Download the app here: https://countthekicks.org/download-app/

Today’s guest is Kimberly Isburg. She is the Communications Director for Healthy Birth Day, Inc., the nonprofit that created the Count the Kicks stillbirth prevention program. She is a mom of two boys and a firm believer in the power of Count the Kicks. She’s on a mission to make sure all expectant parents know about kick counting in the third trimester of pregnancy.

Links for you:

When to start kick counts: https://www.pullingcurls.com/when-start-kick-counts/

The importance of kick counts: https://www.pullingcurls.com/podcast-bonus-kick-counts/

Timestamps:

00:00 “Pregnancy & Parenting Insights Podcast”

05:38 Pregnancy App Tracks Baby Movement

09:24 Mindful Baby Movement Tracking

10:14 Importance of Monitoring Fetal Movement

14:01 Pregnancy Health Concerns

18:50 Assessing Fetal Movement with Anterior Placenta

20:30 Baby Movement Tracking Eases Anxiety

23:16 Monitor Fetal Movement with Anterior Placenta

25:59 Kick Counts Start at 27 Weeks

31:01 Labor Nurses’ Challenges and Solutions

33:03 Third Trimester: Key Time for Testing

35:48 “Daily Kit Counts Benefit Health”

Keypoints:

• The episode features Hilary Erickson, RN, and guest Kimberly from Count the Kicks, diving into frequently asked questions about fetal kick counts during pregnancy.
• The Count the Kicks app is highlighted as a free, easy-to-use tool available in over 20 languages, designed to help expectant moms track their baby’s movement and identify normal patterns.
• Kick counting involves tracking any fetal movement (kicks, rolls, pokes, jabs, swishes) except hiccups, focusing on pattern consistency over time rather than comparing to a fixed standard like “10 kicks in 2 hours.”
• It’s recommended to begin daily kick counts at the start of the third trimester (around 26–28 weeks), which is when babies typically establish a recognizable movement pattern.
• Every baby—and pregnancy—is different; the key is to learn what’s normal for your individual baby instead of comparing to others or strict timeframes.
• Count the Kicks app allows for note-taking, monitoring movement strength, and creating a graph for clear visualization of your baby’s movement history—helpful for discussing with healthcare providers.
• Changes in a baby’s movement pattern (either slower or faster) should always be reported to a healthcare provider, as they can indicate potential problems with either baby or mom’s health.
• Kick counts are proven to help reduce stillbirth rates, with research cited showing a 32% drop in Iowa after the practice was widely encouraged with Count the Kicks.
• Hilary and Kimberly address common concerns such as anxiety related to kick counts, babies described as “lazy,” and complications like an anterior placenta, encouraging open communication with providers.
• Both emphasize kick counting as an empowering, bonding daily ritual—useful not only for peace of mind but as a practical safeguard for mom and baby, and encourage listeners to download the app and make daily tracking part of their routine.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 259, we are talking about frequently asked questions about counting your baby’s kicks, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:09] Hi, I’m Hilary, a Serial over Complicator. I’m also a nurse mom to three and the curly head behind pulling curls and the pregnancy nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with pregnancy and parenting untangled, the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:00:39] This episode of the Pulling Curls podcast is sponsored by the Count the Kicks app. Guys, I’m a firm believer in this and fan girling over the fact that they wanted to sponsor my podcast because it is the app that is going to make kick counts easier and more attainable for you to do at home. I know a lot of you have excuses as to why you don’t do kick counts, and I really think that this app can make a big difference for you.

[00:01:00] So download it in your app store right now.

[00:01:03] Today’s guest is the Communications Director for Healthy Birth Day, which is the nonprofit that created the Count the Kicks app. She is a mom to four and a firm believer in the importance of kick counts. I wanna introduce today’s guest, Kimberly Isburg.

[00:01:15] Hey Kimberly. Welcome to the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:01:18] Kimberly Isburg: Hi Hilary. Thanks so much for having me here.

[00:01:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes, this is a very requested episode. People are always interested in how kick counts and it’s huge soapbox for me, so I’m so excited that you guys are here. First off, let’s talk a little bit about the Count the Kicks app.

[00:01:34] Kimberly Isburg: So we have a free pregnancy app. It’s available in the iOS or Android stores. it is available in more than 20 languages, so, hopefully anyone can count kicks, regardless of what language you speak. And it looks a little bit like this. Bright, yellow and red. We do have a dark mode in the app, but really, starting at the beginning of the third trimester, you can use this app every day, to get familiar with your baby’s normal movement pattern.

[00:02:00] So, it’s really easy. You just click the start counting button and then you tap. The little foot put on the screen every time you feel your baby move. so you’re not only looking for kicks, you’re looking for things like pokes, jabs, rolls, wishes, pushes, any type of movement counts as a movement except for hiccups.

[00:02:19] Those are involuntary or babies aren’t choosing to hiccups. So those don’t count. But any other types of movement count. It’s gonna run a timer on the screen Until you reach 10 movements, and then it’s gonna ask you to rate the strength of your baby’s movements, because research shows that the strength of movements is also an important sign of your baby’s wellbeing.

[00:02:38] So rate those on a scale of one to five, and then you can finish up by taking any notes that you want. So maybe it’s a question you wanna ask your doctor. Maybe it’s, something you ate that day and it really made your baby move and groove, during your kick counting session. so you can take notes and then finish your session.

[00:02:53] And if you do this every day around the same time. You are gonna begin to see a pattern. It’s gonna create, a really cool graph that’s gonna show you kind of what’s normal for your baby. again, that average amount of time that you’re taking, for your baby to reach 10 movement. So this is just a test one that I’ve done, but what you’re.

[00:03:10] Looking for the screen is not working very well. but anyway, you’re kind of looking for a, a pretty level, line across time. If you see that that line starts to go up or significantly down, that’s a change in your baby’s normal movement, and that’s a sign that you wanna call your provider and go in and get checked.

[00:03:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. Do you guys alert them in the app? Like is there an alert where it’s like, this is taking a lot longer, or anything like that, or it’s kind of up to

[00:03:34] Kimberly Isburg: No, it’s kind of up to each person. and really that’s why it’s important for you to do it every day around the same time, really get to know what’s normal for your baby. because every baby and every pregnancy are different. And so a change for you might be different than a change for somebody else.

[00:03:48] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I always recommend that first week is a lot of just learning your pattern.

[00:03:52] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:03:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: will be like, oh, it was 10 minutes yesterday and it was 20 minutes today. I am like, right. So your average is probably around 15. So yeah, learning the pattern is so important. And comparing just your baby to your baby not anyone else.

[00:04:05] Kimberly Isburg: absolutely, absolutely. It’s, yeah, my baby might move, you know, within five minutes and it may take your baby 15 or 20 or 30. So, again, every baby and every pregnancy are different. And the other thing that’s great about the app and that I wanna mention is that, if you create an account.

[00:04:21] Pregnancy profile is what we call it. You’re gonna be able to see that history over a long period of time. So if you start counting at the beginning of the third trimester, 26 to 28 weeks, you’re gonna be able to see 12 weeks of kick counting history, you know, if you go all the way to your due date. So by creating that account, you’re really getting that long term data.

[00:04:40] Otherwise you’ll still be able to see like the last five sessions in the app. but really the key is being able to see that history over time.

[00:04:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Okay, so let’s talk about, I get so many questions. I just had a recently a viral video on kick counts, and so I wanted to go through the questions that I saw most frequently on there, and we can just discuss ’em so that people can really understand how to integrate kick counts in your own life.

[00:05:03] Because I gotta tell you, there were nights I skipped, things I forgot. I was a working mom, and so sometimes it just didn’t happen. Is that the best? Absolutely not. But you would just pick up the next day, or you pick up when you remember, and you try and do your kick count then,

[00:05:16] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, absolutely. It’s again, just being consistent over time and getting to know. The more often you do it, the more consistently you do it, the more you’re gonna know what’s normal for your baby. Like if it is that 15 minute average and one day it’s taking way longer than that, you’re like, okay, this is, this is not normal and I need to call my doctor.

[00:05:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Okay. The first one that everybody says is, my doctor says 10 movements in two hours. I think when I started, so I started in labor and delivery in 2001. I think that’s what we said for

[00:05:46] Kimberly Isburg: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: kick counts. but as that is comparing your baby to everyone else’s baby, which you don’t wanna do when they’re in elementary school either.

[00:05:53] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, yes. Every baby is unique. Just like every person is unique, they’re gonna have their own, unique movement patterns, and so the research has really moved away from the idea that you should expect to get a certain amount of movements in a specific amount of time. So the 10 movements in two hours is not really best practice anymore.

[00:06:11] Again, it’s just doing that daily kick count and learning what’s normal for your baby timing, how long it takes to reach 10 movements. And then paying attention to the strength of those movements as well.

[00:06:21] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And because I had crazy babies, if I had waited two hours to get 10 movements, something would, would, would’ve been seriously

[00:06:27] Kimberly Isburg: Right.

[00:06:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: wrong. Whereas some people with an anterior placenta, they may just feel 10 movements like all day. And if that’s you talk with your provider, there are specific people that this is really difficult for.

[00:06:37] So that’s when you’re talking with your provider and maybe getting further testing during your pregnancy. But you gotta compare your baby to run your own baby’s race.

[00:06:45] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, absolutely. And even every pregnancy, you know, my first son moved way differently than my second son. And, if I had been comparing them, I would’ve felt like something was wrong with my second baby. But that was just what was normal for him.

[00:06:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, ’cause I just wanna remind you guys, it really depends where in your uterus your, placenta is. And so if your uterus, if your placenta is right here where your baby is kicking, then that is gonna be different than if your placenta is like in the back.

[00:07:11] And so you feel everything on the front. So sometimes that visual helps. People understand how different placenta can change how you feel your baby’s movements,

[00:07:19] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and that’s an important thing, you know, to ask your doctor too. If you don’t know where your placenta is located and you’re getting ready to start kick counts, that can be a really helpful piece of information.

[00:07:29] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: and it is on every ultrasound. If you guys are like, well, what if my doctor doesn’t know? It’s just part of every single ultrasound that we get, they share where the placenta is on the uterine wall.

[00:07:38] Kimberly Isburg: Awesome.

[00:07:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. The next thing is when people say, my doctor said not to worry about kick counts. So just make sure that the baby’s moving during the day. What are your thoughts on that? And then I’ll share mine. ’cause I’m, I’m the cynic in this room.

[00:07:51] Kimberly Isburg: So, I mean, I think. That’s kind of practicing mindfulness, just being aware of movements, and I think that’s really important too. Your baby, the beginning of the third trimester is going to get into kind of a recognizable pattern, times of day where they’re more active, times of day where they’re resting.

[00:08:06] but again, the key is. Picking a time of day when you know that they’re active and counting during that time. we are busy during pregnancy. We have a lot going on. You may have other kids. It is easy to get just wrapped up in your day and kind of forget about when was the last time I felt my baby move.

[00:08:24] And so having this daily practice where you take time to sit down, lay down. Really focus on your baby’s movement. It really gives you that peace of mind to know like, okay, today my baby is moving at the time they normally do in the way they normally do, and I can go back to making dinner or playing with my kids.

[00:08:41] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, so first off, I think it’s really important to not turn off your brain like when you’re doing kick counts, you’re still monitoring for fetal movement all during the day. Some people are like, well, if you only, monitor it after dinner, that’s not good either, which I agree should always be making, you know, that should always be reassuring when you’re feeling baby move. Second of all. Some of these doctors, I feel like do not wanna be notified when your baby is moving less because they wanna sleep. and that’s the cynic in me coming out. But I just wanted you guys to understand that that could be a red flag if your provider’s like, oh, fetal movement doesn’t really matter. Might wanna look for a different ob. That’s just me. That’s just Hilary. because I think some of them like to ignore it because they don’t wanna see you or take those phone calls.

[00:09:22] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and I agree like just because your doctor isn’t talking to you about it or isn’t recommending it, doesn’t mean it isn’t important. Like this kick counting is for every mom in every pregnancy. It’s important practice, even if it isn’t something that your doctor is specifically asking you to do.

[00:09:39] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I would bring it up at appointments. If they haven’t brought it up,

[00:09:42] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:09:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: and you’re close to your third trimester, they’re not gonna bring it up when you’re 12 weeks. But if you’re getting 25, 26, 27 weeks and they’re still not bringing it up, bring it up in the office and just see what they say. It’s always a good, communication thing to be kind of like, you know, do they care?

[00:09:54] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and I think that’s where the Count the Kicks app is a great, it’s a great tool. It’s a great conversation piece, and you can bring it with you to appointments and you can. show, you know, your chart on the app, or you can even text or email your data from your kick sessions directly to your provider.

[00:10:09] And so it can kind of help you have that conversation about your baby’s movement patterns during your appointments.

[00:10:15] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Then I hear a lot. “I should just figure out their schedule. My doctor told me to just figure out my baby’s schedule and make sure that they stay on it.” And again, you wanna be monitoring baby’s movements, but I, that is tricky. A lot of these are so vague that me as a person who really likes boundaries And spreadsheets and stuff. I really like the kick counts because it gives me more of a concrete thing to aim for rather than, “well, is your baby on their schedule?” Whereas if I’m not on my schedule, I decide to go to the mall instead of like work at home that day, then I have no idea what’s going on.

[00:10:48] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Your schedule changes every day, so that can impact your baby schedule as well. we like to say that this app, kick counting is like having a data download for your intuition. You’re still aware of the baby’s schedule, but you’ve got data there to show you like, yep. Today it took 20 minutes just like it did all week.

[00:11:07] and so again, yeah, be aware of your baby schedule if you know that they’re always moving and grooving when you lay down to go to bed at night and there’s a night where they’re not doing that, that’s, you know, a red flag. That’s something that you might want to call your doctor about or go in and get checked.

[00:11:22] But, still important to do that daily practice of kick counts.

[00:11:25] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Okay. And the final one I hear a lot from providers is that later on in pregnancy, baby will just move less. And I can see where these people are coming from because the characteristic of the movement does change. It’s no longer karate and cheerleader kicks because your baby just doesn’t have the room to pull back and really sock you.

[00:11:46] Kimberly Isburg: right.

[00:11:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: They’re shifting a lot. They’re just, I always was like, my baby is gonna come out and be a full on cheerleader, right? There’s, they’re gonna be like doing the spread eagle, whereas, and then you see ’em and they’re just like this and you’re like, is that all you were doing in there? I thought you were really going at it.

[00:12:00] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The types of movements that you’re gonna feel towards the end are, are different and more nudges, fewer big roll and kicks more, you know, kind of elbows, jabs. But they should still continue to follow that same pattern, have the same times of day when they’re active, and take about the same amount of time to reach 10 movements.

[00:12:19] They do not slow down. They do not run out of room. They do not kick less at the end of pregnancy. They should still be moving up to and during labor.

[00:12:28] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And if they are running out of room, which could mean that you have less fluid or baby is extra large, you know, this is more than just learning like that something’s really wrong with baby. Some of it is you just aren’t producing enough fluid. I. Right, and you need further testing ’cause that can be detrimental to baby or you have preeclampsia.

[00:12:47] I can’t tell me how many people in the comments were like, I actually went in and found out my blood pressure was high, which could make your fluid lower or things like that. you’re learning about your pregnancy health along with these kick counts. Not always just baby’s health.

[00:13:00] Kimberly Isburg: Correct. Like your baby’s movements are not only a sign of their wellbeing, but a sign of the health of the pregnancy. And we do see a connection between, a change in movements and some pregnancy complication that’s going on with mom. Things like preeclampsia, things like placental issues. it can be an indication, not just that something is happening with your baby, but that there’s something going on in the pregnancy.

[00:13:22] And so that’s why it’s so important to pay attention to those movements and to speak up every time that you have a concern, you know that your baby’s not moving like normal. Something feels off.

[00:13:32] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Now we’re shifting to a segment that I called, I’m doing this instead because everyone was like, “I don’t think kick counts really work. I, I’m doing this instead.” So the one I hear a lot is “I’m just mindful of baby’s movements, and that’s the same.”

[00:13:47] Kimberly Isburg: again, it’s great. Being mindful of movements is awesome. again, you don’t have that like data knowing, okay, I, my baby was moving, but like, how much did they move? how long did it take them to reach 10 movements? That’s what Count The Kicks is really helping you get, it’s a kind of. taking that mindfulness of movements and quantifying it and saying, okay, my baby moved 10 times in 15 minutes today, and the strength was a three, pretty average.

[00:14:14] so I think mindfulness is great, but kick counting, doing the practice of the app is like, again, that data download for your intuition and what you’re feeling.

[00:14:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And beyond that, you guys have a study, so, we’ve always said be mindful of baby’s movements, but you guys have a study that you linked to on your site when they integrated kick counts into prenatal care, really pushed it in the state of Ohio,

[00:14:37] Kimberly Isburg: Iowa. Yeah,

[00:14:39] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:14:39] Kimberly Isburg: that’s okay.

[00:14:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: that when they started talking about doing the count, still dropped by 33%.

[00:14:47] Kimberly Isburg: in the first 10 years of Count the Kicks in the state of Iowa, which is where our organization was founded.

[00:14:54] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So, you know, we’ve always talked about mindfulness. Of course. That’s like one of the first questions I get when I, when you come into labor and delivery, how are you feeling, baby move because it’s really important. Your OB probably goes over it at your prenatal appointments. We’ve always said that, right?

[00:15:08] But when they integrated these, the data of count the kicks, which is actually what, Got me going like in the first place. My manager went to a conference, saw you guys and brought the information back to me. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I totally need to write an article on this because this is crazy good data.

[00:15:24] And this was probably like 10 years ago, maybe more than that. it really saves stillborn babies. So if you’re telling yourself that, you’re just gonna be mindful. The data shows that. You know, one in three still births can be saved by doing kick counts. That doesn’t mean one in three pregnancies.

[00:15:39] Kimberly Isburg: right.

[00:15:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That means one in three still births.

[00:15:42] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And stillbirths, there’s about 21,000 in the US every year, and that’s roughly one in every 177 pregnancies nationwide. So it’s not uncommon, but it’s not super common either. But again, the risk is higher than I think most of us realize, and that’s why we’re trying to talk about it and raise awareness that it is an outcome that can be prevented.

[00:16:02] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: When you guys say the one in 177, does that mean after a certain number of weeks? ’cause that doesn’t include miscarriages,

[00:16:08] Kimberly Isburg: One in 1 77 means it’s 20 weeks and none is what’s classified as the silver. So that includes, babies that are lost in that late second trimester as well.

[00:16:19] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. The other thing I hear a lot is “my baby is lazy.” by the way, my teenager is lazy, so I understand that. but my, she’s not, she does the transcriptions, but sometimes she is, we’re all lazy sometimes,

[00:16:31] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:16:31] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: my baby is lazy. I can’t do these. what are your thoughts on that?

[00:16:34] Kimberly Isburg: I, again, every baby is different. I had one baby that just kicked me like crazy and my other baby was much more chill. your baby may be kind of chill. They may be lazy, I guess as you described them. Still important to do it. It’s still important to know that your baby, Is, is taking 30 minutes a day to get their kick counts or whatever it is that’s normal for your baby.

[00:16:59] Again, don’t compare it to your friend’s baby. Don’t compare it to your last pregnancy. Know what’s normal for your baby. And if they are just not quite as much of an active kicker, that’s okay. But again, by doing that daily kick count, picking the time that your baby is normally moving around, you are gonna be able to quantify what their movement pattern is.

[00:17:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I think some of those people are thinking the 10 in two hours, they’re like, my baby’s not gonna hit that. Maybe they have an anterior placenta or whatever. If you literally, I know Dr. Fran has done some, some things on her page where she has anterior placenta on every baby, and she really only felt a few kicks every hour.

[00:17:35] Or every day. And so if that is you, that’s definitely something you wanna bring to your provider. I would say that if that’s the case, you probably are looking for maybe NSTs during the week or they should be upgrading you to a, a higher risk care plan if that’s really all the baby movement that you’re feeling.

[00:17:50] So I would talk with your provider if you’re feeling like kick counts are taking more than two hours every day, just to kind of get an idea because we obviously can’t stop our lives and

[00:17:59] Kimberly Isburg: Okay.

[00:17:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: just wait for baby to move. For hours and hours and hours. Yeah.

[00:18:03] Kimberly Isburg: Yes.

[00:18:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And, but I, when I did them at work, because I tried to do them after dinner, I would try and sit down and, and just use my fingers.

[00:18:10] ’cause we didn’t have apps back in the day. Um, fine too, you don’t have to use the app or if you get, you’re like, you’re at a concert and you’re like, I don’t wanna open the app. Just use your fingers and, you know, just feel for baby to move, while you’re there.

[00:18:22] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:23] And we do have other resources available for kick counting. So we’ve got, wristbands that have like a slider that moves from one to 10. so we’ve got some of those available on our website in certain states. And then we’ve also got paper charts that you can print out, and those are available in a lot of different languages on our website, and anybody can download and print those out.

[00:18:42] So if an app is not your thing, there’s still other ways to count. You can just set a timer on your phone or set a, an old school timer as well.

[00:18:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. okay. The other one I get is “Kick Counts will make, they’ll make me so anxious and crazy. I am not able to do it.” So how do you guys respond to that?

[00:18:57] Kimberly Isburg: We hear that a lot and what our app users tell us is more than 77% of them say that it actually helps reduce their anxiety about the wellbeing of their baby. So again. Knowledge is power. And by doing this every day, you’re quantifying that movement. You’re getting familiar with your baby’s patterns, and that’s gonna give you a lot of peace of mind so that once you do it, you know, okay, today my baby is moving just like they always do.

[00:19:22] I can go on and finish my work or, make dinner, whatever you need to do next. And by the same token, if you have a day where your baby, you’re just feeling off, something’s not right, you do your kick count, it’s taking longer than normal. Again, you’ve got that data to back up how you’re feeling and you know, okay, this is a concern.

[00:19:41] I need to call my provider and get checked.

[00:19:43] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. I will say that also, if you’re just sitting there living in your anxiety, that’s probably not helpful. So I always encourage people, that’s your time to get to know your baby, to dream about this baby, how perfect they’re gonna be. How they’re never gonna have a problem, that you will never have to put ’em in timeout or whatever.

[00:20:01] Like they’re just gonna be. The perfect baby. I dream about like all the good things you have going, like the first time they open a Christmas gift and like they get what’s going on. The first time you put ’em in a Halloween costume when they’re two. It’s like there are so many good moments for you guys coming if you dream about those rather than like. It’s been oh, oh, oh. Like if you spend the whole time just freaking out, then yes, that’s gonna cause you anxiety. But if you take the time to like work on some meditation, just dream about the excitement, then it hopefully will decrease your anxiety. And if you think you’re one of those people who think anxiety’s gonna be like a real problem, just start. Do it for a week. See where you’re at after a week.

[00:20:38] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And

[00:20:39] that’s great advice. And yeah, just try it and see how it goes. You’re gonna learn something in the process and that’s also, thank you so much for, for bringing that up. It is a fantastic time to bond with your baby to get to know their personality. It is an opportunity to involve your spouse or your partner or your baby’s older siblings.

[00:20:59] Like anybody can help you do this kick count and spend time bonding with your baby before they arrive. So There are many benefits to it, in addition to just checking on your baby’s wellbeing.

[00:21:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Oh, I love the idea of a sibling or a partner helping you out with it. That’s a good one. Yeah. Okay. Now we’re gonna talk about some complications. We’ve already talked about this a little bit. So the first one is an anterior placenta, which means your placenta is on the front of your uterus. If it’s behind, then that is a posterior placenta. And early on in pregnancy, if you found that you had an anterior placenta, it actually can move to a posterior placenta as your uterus grows. Just so everybody knows. So your most recent ultrasound, usually if you get your 20 week, it’ll tell you which side your placenta is on. but if people with an anterior placenta can’t get 10 movements in two hours, what is your guys’ recommendation?

[00:21:43] Kimberly Isburg: I mean, like you said, definitely talking to your provider and getting advice from them about how you can monitor movement with your anterior placenta. but really, and same like. It may be that you need to be a little bit more mindful of kick counting. You need to sit down, you need to lie down on your side.

[00:22:01] Really take that time to be a hundred percent focused on that so you can kind of, fine tune and like zero in on those movements in a way that you might not have to if you didn’t have an anterior placenta. But really the research does show that fetal movement counting times are similar to other placental locations from 24 weeks and on.

[00:22:21] So it may delay kind of feeling those early movements. But what the research shows is that it’s still possible to kick count and that you should see similar movements from 24 weeks and on.

[00:22:32] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. That’s super interesting because sometimes I’ll have people in the comments who are like, I have a anterior placenta and I, you know, my kick counts 20 minutes. And so I agree that sometimes you have to sit down and actually feel for baby to move, which is a bummer because we’re busy. Right. But personally, I did it after dinner, so my husband would have to clean up dinner.

[00:22:51] I was like, oh no. I need to sit down and do my kick count, honey. there were so many benefits to a kick count at my house.

[00:22:58] Okay. The next complication, well just question is why do we not start until 27 weeks? Because then I get people who are like, well, I’m 12 weeks and I’ve already felt my baby move, and it seems like it’s less today.

[00:23:08] And I’m like, that’s so complicated. But what do you guys say to that?

[00:23:12] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, so the reason that doctors recommend, the beginning of the third trimester, which is around the 28 week mark, or 26 weeks if you’re high risk or expecting multiples. But the reason for that is because the beginning of the third trimester is when babies start to get into a recognizable pattern of movement.

[00:23:29] So it’ll be a little, you’ll still feel movements before that, of course. But they aren’t gonna be as, patterned. And so again, at that 28 week, 26 weeks, you’re gonna begin to see like those active times of day, the things that you do that are, sparking your baby to move. And it just makes it easier to kind of monitor that pattern and those normal movements.

[00:23:51] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. just a reminder that your placenta is so much bigger than your baby early on. And so it can really blunt a lot of those movements and depending on where baby is in the womb against the placenta or where they’re kicking. ’cause if they’re kicking the front, you know, you have muscles and stuff that are feeling that, but it whereas if they’re kicking to the side, you know, it might just be buggin’ your liver, I don’t know. And so you just might not feel it as much because baby’s so small compared to the rest of your body until you reach that third trimester. So I think that’s important to think about. And also as a healthcare provider, there really isn’t all that much we could do prior to 27 weeks, if you came in and said baby’s moving less. That’s something to think about. That’s part of why we do it. We don’t want you to be stressing out at something that movements change and patterns change because we aren’t looking to increase your stress, even though people seem to think that we are online with kick counts. That’s why we don’t start ’em until 27 weeks.

[00:24:42] If you think you’re high risk, though, definitely talk with your provider. A lot of moms are saying they start at 25 weeks and again, those first week or two where you’re mostly just learning the pattern, of what your baby’s gonna do.

[00:24:51] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, that’s great advice.

[00:24:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. Now our kick counts are slower or way faster.

[00:24:56] A lot of people, are like, it’s any change in fetal movement. So if baby’s kicking a whole lot more, you wanna go in. Or if baby’s kicking a whole lot less, you wanna go in. True?

[00:25:06] Kimberly Isburg: True, true. Any change in, in what’s normal for your baby is a reason to go in and get checked.

[00:25:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, out of their normal pattern,

[00:25:13] Kimberly Isburg: Right.

[00:25:14] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: right? So just because it only took eight minutes where it usually takes 10, that’s not a change in your pattern.

[00:25:19] Right?

[00:25:20] so you go into the hospital and the thing I hear all the time is my baby kicked the monitor as soon as we got in.

[00:25:26] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And I say, great, like you went in, you listened to your instincts, you listened to what your baby was telling you, you got in there and everything is fine. that’s best case scenario. And you know. Doctors and nurses are there to help you and to support you and to check, um, to make sure that you and your baby are doing okay.

[00:25:44] And so they really would rather do that than find that you, you delayed and didn’t come in until um, something really was wrong. So.

[00:25:53] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and with kick counts, I wanna encourage you guys that it’s not an absence of fetal movement. I mean, I, as a nurse, I’ve had so many patients come in and say, oh, I haven’t felt my baby all day. Total fear and dread into every labor nurse’s heart. We want that monitor on immediately so that we can reassure both you and ourselves at that point in time. But decreased kick counts mean baby is still moving. You’re still feeling baby move, which means they could kick the monitor. ’cause babies love to kick our monitors. We love it. But why is it decreased? Again, that could show, an issue with the health of your pregnancy, an issue with the amniotic fluid, things like that where baby’s movements are decreased, but you’re still gonna feel the baby kick the monitor or things like that.

[00:26:34] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, I mean, research shows that a change in movement is really one of the earliest signs that there may be an issue with the pregnancy. So it’s one of those early warning signs. and also, you know, babies are like us. Their movement is a sign of their wellbeing. So think about what happens if you have the flu or if you have a cold, you don’t have as much energy.

[00:26:53] You don’t wanna be running around your house doing chores. You want to lay down in your bed or lay down on the couch. Your movement changes. And so your baby is much the same if they’re not. Getting what they need. If they’re experiencing something that’s causing them to not feel like themselves, their movement is gonna change.

[00:27:10] And so that’s a really important sign that you wanna pay attention to and go in as soon as you can. Call your provider as soon as you can so that they can check and make sure that you know there isn’t something wrong.

[00:27:22] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Um, I just don’t want people, everyone, you know, when you take your kid into the pediatrician, this is a hundred percent gonna happen.

[00:27:28] They’re like miserable at home, not like getting off the couch, dying tears coming outta their eyes. You take ’em to the pediatrician, suddenly they see the fish tank and they’re like a hundred percent better. So. That’s gonna happen for the rest of your life. But don’t think that just because you went in and the baby kicked a little, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t still be monitoring you and baby.

[00:27:48] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. Yeah. And if, again, if you go in one day and everything is fine and two days later you’re feeling things are feeling off again, your baby’s not moving like normal again. Go in and get checked. Call your provider every time that you feel like something is different than usual. It’s important to go in and get checked.

[00:28:06] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. The last thing is “I went into my provider, they listened on the Doppler, baby’s heart rate was fine, and they wanna send me home, like if they go into just their doctor’s office. What do you guys recommend? If that’s the case,

[00:28:20] Kimberly Isburg: I mean, trust your instincts. really if you really feel like you don’t feel reassured, you don’t feel like your baby is moving like normal, trust your instincts and continue to ask.

[00:28:32] Ask for additional testing. Ask to be monitored longer. Ask for a non-stressed or test or a biophysical profile. Ask to check your fluid levels. The other thing is you can show your data from Count the Kicks, that’s the other thing. Pull up your app, show them the chart and say like, look, it normally takes 15 minutes for my baby to move 10 times, and today it’s been an hour.

[00:28:56] And I didn’t get there yet. Like show them the data, so that you can help advocate for yourself and for your baby. You can ask to see a different nurse, the head nurse, you can ask to talk to the doctor. There are lots of things you can do, to help advocate. And again, just the key is trust your instincts.

[00:29:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Two thoughts on that. The first one is we frequently get people who come into labor and delivery and who are like, I haven’t felt my baby move all day. And I’m like, okay, let’s get the baby on the monitor. That’s obviously our first thing. And then we start going through like, when did you last eat? And they’re like, oh, like six o’clock last night.

[00:29:27] And it’s like 1:00 PM And I’m like, why did you not eat this morning? And so that kind of thing is a little bit frustrating for us because you know that you should be eating and those kind of things or you know, Just as a, as a labor nurse, it’s kind of hard to know exactly what they mean when they’re like, baby’s moving less today.

[00:29:43] Or you know, have you been busy? is it Christmas? Like a lot of times at Christmas people will come in and they’re just like, well, I’m just not feeling baby move, but they’re doing like all these family things and stuff like that. And so it’s kind of hard as a labor nurse to know exactly what they mean.

[00:29:55] But if somebody comes in saying, my kick count usually takes 10 minutes, and now I’m to 40 minutes,, and I still haven’t gotten to 10 kicks. I know that A, you’re monitoring it and B, we have data behind it that we really need to upgrade this, care to something a little bit more. As a labor nurse, that’s just what you’re thinking.

[00:30:11] We’ve got data, right? So that’s why I love you guys’ app to help people out. And then the second thing is a lot of people don’t know. ‘Cause you go into your doctor’s office, they just doppler, right? But in the hospital, we’re required to do an NST on every single patient that comes in that’s past their third trimester, which is when you would start doing kick counts.

[00:30:28] And Even if the NST is okay, there are more things you can order, like you talked about. We can do A BPP, which is an ultrasound that measures how baby’s moving in the womb, how they’re, they breathe amniotic fluid when they’re in the womb, like how, like tight their muscles are and all these different things.

[00:30:41] It’s just like a, a mini test to see how baby’s doing. And so we can order that further testing. It’s not just either just a Doppler in the doctor’s office or just an NST. We can upgrade it. but sometimes I think you do have to ask. It just depends. ’cause sometimes the unit is so busy, we’re just like, yeah, baby’s fine.

[00:30:56] You’re good to go. Whereas if you said, I’m really concerned, then I think we’re gonna really take that seriously.

[00:31:02] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely. And I would say, if you’re looking for advice for, you know, feeling empowered or, wanting to make sure that you are able to speak up if you need to, read the baby save stories on our website.

[00:31:15] Like almost every single mom in every single story says something about trusting your instincts, advocating for yourself and for your baby, the importance of continuing to speak up until you feel like your concerns have been addressed and heard.

[00:31:30] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. I would totally agree. And as a labor nurse, I want to know that if your concerns aren’t addressed and you still feel anxious about it, I want to know and then we’ll go from there.

[00:31:40] Right. It might be further testing, it might be talking a little bit more. Again, I see a lot of people who are like, well, I went in at, you know, 23 weeks with decreased fetal movement. They pretty much are just gonna doppler you maybe an NST if they can get the baby on the monitor. But that’s really all we can do.

[00:31:55] Which is why you know, it’s so important to start this in your third trimester. ‘Cause there really is more testing we can do and more we can do. It might just be like serial blood pressures. Let’s check this mom blood pressure and see how things are going. Let’s check her glucose. You know, there are little things that we can do to just kind of see how your pregnancy health is going.

[00:32:10] Do you guys recommend that you go straight into labor and delivery, or do you recommend going to your provider? What do you guys recommend?

[00:32:16] Kimberly Isburg: Definitely call your provider, and check with them. But again, if it’s after hours, if you’re not hearing back right away, like it’s always okay to go straight to labor and delivery and to get checked.

[00:32:27] You can call and let your doctor know that you’re on your way. But, really again, just trust your instincts and if you’re concerned, get yourself checked as soon as you can.

[00:32:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I will tell you from a labor and delivery nurse, we have people who come in for this all the time.

[00:32:39] I think people think that you only come into labor and delivery when you’re gonna have the baby, and that’s not the case at all. You come in for bladder infections, you come in for baby not moving, you come in for, extreme ligament pain that you think is labor, but really ends up being ligament pain.

[00:32:50] We have a nurse who’s dedicated to just seeing patients who come in like a mini emergency room for pregnant people.

[00:32:56] Kimberly Isburg: Right. Yeah. So yeah, you can go straight to labor and delivery and they know what to do and to check when you get there.

[00:33:04] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And they’re open 24 7, 365 days a year. You don’t have to be like, is labor and delivery open?

[00:33:09] I can tell you that it is. Of course you wanna make sure that the hospital you’re going to has labor and delivery, and I think that’s important for every patient to know because there are labor and delivery units closing. So you could show up to a hospital that really isn’t prepared. So talk with your provider about where you’re gonna be delivering so that you know that that’s probably the hospital that you should head to if you’re having an issue.

[00:33:28] Kimberly Isburg: And also think about for those moms that live in rural areas or farther away from their birthing center, I think that’s another consideration. If you know that you’re an hour away from the nearest labor and delivery unit, that’s another thing to think about in just making sure that. Maybe you call your provider, but you go ahead and get in the car and start heading that direction so that you can get evaluated as soon as possible.

[00:33:49] ’cause hours and minutes really do matter when there is an issue in pregnancy, and so the sooner you can get checked, the sooner you’re gonna have a chance to address anything that’s going on.

[00:33:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I absolutely hate the fact that we have so many post or pregnancy deserts out there. So many people are driving long distances to their labor and delivery.

[00:34:08] And I’m not talking about the people who pass like five hospitals on the way ’cause they’re picky. Right. And they want a specific one. I’m talking about people who that is their option. Yep. So we gotta work on that too. We have so much to work on. But kick counts is something that you can do for you and your baby’s health every single day, and I think it’s really gonna reassure you if you think you’re gonna be anxious or you think your baby isn’t gonna do it.

[00:34:28] My tip is to give it a try. Commit to try for a week, see how you’re feeling after the week, because that week is really just learning about your baby’s pattern. And then see where you’re at after the week.

[00:34:39] Kimberly Isburg: I love that advice.

[00:34:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Because I’m an anxious person. I get it. I would sit there and be like, it’s been 12 minutes and we’re only to eight counts.

[00:34:46] And yesterday we were at 10 minutes. I get that. But again, you’re looking for a pattern.

[00:34:50] Kimberly Isburg: Yes. And the more, again, the more data you have, the easier it’s gonna be to see that pattern. So

[00:34:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: yes. Alright. Thank you so much for coming on Kimberly. Do you have anything else to tell the pregnant mamas out there?

[00:35:00] Kimberly Isburg: I just wanted to share our app now has a contraction timer as well. So, another tool and feature that’s on the Count the Kicks app that you can use, once you get close to, the end of your pregnancy and it’s time for labor to start. You can use that to time your contractions and help inform you on when it’s time to head to the hospital or call your midwife or doctor.

[00:35:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, it’s a great app that you’re gonna be able to find lots of use for. it’s not something that is just one thing. You can get lots of information from it. So the other thing I gotta say is. Download the app, get in your phone, download the app, especially if you’re like 25 weeks and it’s already on your phone, you’re ready and set up to do your kick counts once the big day comes in your 27 weeks.

[00:35:38] Kimberly Isburg: Yep. And you can set reminders right in the app. So, it’ll send you a notification every day when it’s time to count. So, really easy to use.

[00:35:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes, please do your kick counts, guys. It’s a huge soapbox for me because the less still births the better in my mind. And I have found still births and I’ve definitely taken care of still births moms and we wanna decrease them as much as possible.

[00:35:59] And this is something we can do has been proven to decrease still births. Yes. Alright. Download the app. Do your kick counts. Let’s go team.

[00:36:07] Kimberly Isburg: Thanks Hilary. I totally agree.

[00:36:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

kick counts, fetal movement, Count the Kicks app, anterior placenta, pregnancy monitoring, stillbirth prevention, third trimester, baby movement patterns, contraction timer, prenatal care, high risk pregnancy, labor and delivery, amniotic fluid, monitoring baby kicks, placenta location, pregnancy complications, non-stress test (NST), biophysical profile (BPP), pregnancy anxiety, doctor/patient communication, pregnancy apps, Healthy Birthday nonprofit, kick count reminders, ultrasound, pregnancy health, mindful of baby’s movements, reduced fetal movement, fetal monitoring, pregnancy data tracking, pregnancy deserts

The post Kick Counts Made Simple: FAQs, Expert Tips, and Why It Can Save Babies’ Lives appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Before we get going — I’m not just a believer in kick counts — I’m also The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of labor and delivery experience. The studies about kick counts really opened my eyes as to how important they are. I think they’ll help you see it too!

Oh, and I have a kick count cheat sheet that gives my best tips to making them work for you!

I also made a video of this post, in case you’re a watcher/listener and less of a reader:

When Should I Start Kick Counts?

The recommendation is around 27-28 weeks, as you’re heading into your third trimester. If you’re higher risk I’ve seen some providers recommend closer to 25 weeks or so.

This is also a GREAT time to get your birth class started. I recommend this one (so does BabyList).

Why start then?

Great question — I think it comes down to three things:

Baby Large Enough to Make an Impact — Baby needs to be at a good size where most people are feeling baby move. LOTS of people don’t feel baby until 20’ish weeks (or, don’t know that they’re feeling them). And, for those first few weeks it will be completely random… because there isn’t a…

Pattern of Fetal Movement — We need baby to be moving fairly frequently throughout the day. It’s also an extra win if you do your kick count at a time that baby tends to be active (we’ll talk more about that — so keep reading).

Viability — You may not really want to think about this one (and skip this if fetal loss is a big trigger for you) — but the reality is that if something is wrong we need to be able to help. If baby isn’t moving well, that means that baby may be compromised, and we can’t really do much to help a compromised fetus prior to about your 3rd trimester.

This all to say that if you’re having a lot of anxiety about the baby — and you’re around 25 weeks, and you’re feeling that pattern of fetal movement every day — I don’t think there’s anything wrong with starting them them. At the very least you’d become very familiar with your baby’s movement — which is always a win. Talk with your provider with any questions on how this works for YOU.

Looking for more info on pregnancy health — be sure to check out these posts:

• Splash! Everything To Know About Your Water Breaking
• 4 Things You Can Do to Prepare Your Cervix for Labor
• Weird Symptoms of Labor You Might Be Missing
• 35 Weeks Pregnant Checklist
• 7 Things You’re Doing Wrong in Your Third Trimester

Is it Just Kicks?

This is tricky — it’s really “fetal movement” — not just kicks. Kick counts just an easy way to talk about them, and most people talk about baby “kicking” when they move and are small. As your baby grows you’ll feel a lot more than just kicks. You’ll feel them shifting and rolling in the womb.

The only thing that doesn’t count is hiccups. These are rhythmic “bounces” that most people are able to identify. That type of movement doesn’t show the baby is making purposeful movements — so, if baby is having hiccups (which is very normal and fine) it’s smart to wait a little until they’ve stopped, unless you can easily tease out the hiccups from regular movements.

If you’re not sure what is movement vs a hiccup and you’re in your 3rd trimester (it starts to get more clear the further along you are) — this is a GREAT thing to ask about at your next prenatal appointment. I’m a huge fan of asking questions — it’s one of my 3 things to prepare for labor.

What do the studies show?

The one that put this on my own radar was this study — where they pushed using the app, and really monitoring baby’s movement in the state of Iowa. They made it a goal to talk about a prenatal appointments and just an overall push to make people more aware — and stillbirth rates fell:

Iowa’s state’s stillbirth rate went down 32% while rates in the rest of the country remained relatively stagnant. — Read more about the evidence here.

Yeah, you read that — that’s 1/3 stillbirths can be prevented. You can read the full study here.

This study showed in Norway showed similar results — decreasing stillbirth by 30%

This Cochrane meta-analysis showed that those counting fetal movement were more likely to find baby wasn’t growing well (called IUGR) vs those who weren’t monitoring fetal movement.

That study also showed (because it included several studies) the variance in how people count baby’s movements. The ways every study monitored fetal movement was pretty different. It makes it hard to be very scientific about it.

This meta analysis showed there was a decrease in poor neonatal outcomes (think poor apgar scores, or NICU admission) without an increase in interventions.

Sources:

• Burgess A, Aucutt M, Coleman SL. Standardizing Fetal Movement Monitoring using Count the Kicks. MCN Am J Matern Child Nurs. 2024 Nov-Dec 01;49(6):306-313. doi: 10.1097/NMC.0000000000001048. Epub 2024 Oct 15. PMID: 38976790; PMCID: PMC11472900.
• Mangesi L, Hofmeyr GJ, Smith V, Smyth RM. Fetal movement counting for assessment of fetal wellbeing. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2015 Oct 15;2015(10):CD004909. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD004909.pub3. PMID: 26467769; PMCID: PMC9270931.
• Effect of encouraging awareness of reduced fetal movement and subsequent clinical management on pregnancy outcome: a systematic review and meta-analysisHayes, Dexter J.L. et al.American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology MFM, Volume 5, Issue 3, 100821
• Tveit JV, Saastad E, Stray-Pedersen B, et al. Reduction of late stillbirth with the introduction of fetal movement information and guidelines – a clinical quality improvement. BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth. 2009 Jul;9:32. DOI: 10.1186/1471-2393-9-32. PMID: 19624847; PMCID: PMC2734741.
• TY – JOUR AU – Heazell, Alexander E. P. AU – Holland, Fiona AU – Wilkinson, Jack C8 – BJOG-22-1454.R1 TI – Information about fetal movements and stillbirth trends: Analysis of time series data JO – BJOG: An International Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology JA – BJOG: Int J Obstet Gy VL – 130 IS – 8 SN – 1470-0328 UR – https://doi.org/10.1111/1471-0528.17426
• Hui Huang, Olivia Ceavers, María C Pinzón-Iregui, Melissa M. Howard, Connecting with fetus: The use of app-based fetal movement ounting and experiences during pregnancy and birth, Midwifery, Volume 140, 2025, 104214, ISSN 0266-6138, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.midw.2024.104214.

I did a podcast with Count the Kicks that you might find helpful too with more Kick Count FAQ’s

What do you do with this information?

You’re going to see a pattern of fetal movement as you do this activity. Baby should stay in that “zone of safety” (taking about the same time every day to get to those 10 movements) — but if you’re finding that baby’s movements have changed a lot day to day you need to either call your provider or go to the hospital.

One of the things people like most about that app is that it alerts you if baby’s movement is outside of the “norm” — and because they are a research-backed group they have a lot of data to show what’s safe vs unsafe for how baby’s movements vary (because it will NOT be the exact same amount of time each day).

Big changes in fetal movement should send you directly to labor and delivery (not wait for a call from your provider). I have a whole article on what to do if baby is moving less.

BIG TIP: Make sure that you’ve eaten and drank water before or during your kick counts. If you’re not giving baby the nutrients it needs, baby is less likely to move — so make sure that you’re feeding yourself!

What will your provider/hospital do?

I am not sure what doctors do (I guess they’d assess things over the phone and send you to L&D if something seems off) — but in the hospital we do an NST on your baby. We’ll see how they’re managing regular life in the womb.

Most often they’ll also order a BPP as well that checks for a variety of things on baby. I talked about the BPP and fetal testing on my podcast with a well-known ultrasound tech:

If you’re truly doing kick counts in your third trimester and you notice fetal movement is off — your provider/hospital should take this seriously. Most often beyond the NST (which we do for anyone in their third trimester at the hospital) they should order a BPP and maybe further if baby looks OK right then. If they aren’t, be very clear with your words that you do daily kick counts, your baby’s movement is much less (using as many “numbers” as you can) and you know that increases your risk for stillbirth and you want help! Hopefully that will help them take you more seriously.

My Doctor Told Me Not To Do Kick Counts.

As I sit here and silently scream, I’ve gotta tell you that’s a red flag for me. Providers should be very happy for you to do kick counts properly, as it has been shown to reduce stillbirth rates, and decrease anxiety in pregnant moms.

In my experience, the providers that don’t encourage kick counts honestly just don’t want the calls that baby is moving less. Yes, that might save some babies — but it interrupts their lives.

There are going to be some false alarms with this system — but when you do it this way they’re less likely to happen, and should trigger action on your healthcare team.

Personally, I really think there are less false alarms because you’ve created a SYSTEM of monitoring, vs just “how’s baby moving”?

If they tell you not to do kick counts, I’d ask them why. I’d probe further, and honestly — it might be a reason to switch doctors. But, that’s me.

Yes, there are studies that show it doesn’t help, but they aren’t well-controlled and had a wide-variety of fetal movement monitoring methods — feel free to share the ones done like we’ve discussed like this one. Maybe you can help them realize they’re wrong.

There is a push working to really help providers all use standardized language to talk about kick counts, so we can stop the confusion. We’re just not there yet.

AND, if you’re in your third trimester (or close to it) — I think you’ll find this checklist pack so helpful:

What About Twins?

I have talked to MANY twin moms who say they can tell which twin is moving. If you’re pregnant with twins, I think this a great conversation to have with your provider.

What Are Kick Counts?

While we’ve talked about kick counts for a long time in the US, we haven’t found a way to all talk about them the same way. I’ve found a lot of providers say 10 movements in 2 hours and that IS NOT kick counts. It is not evidence-based, and hasn’t been shown to help reduce stillbirths.

The way the data has shown us is most helpful is to do it this way:

1. Sit or lay down (if possible — as a nurse this wasn’t always possible) and note the time.
2. Note every time baby moves (and count it)
3. Once you count 10 movements, note the time again — how many minutes has it been since you started.
4. Do this daily at about the same time (if possible). Keep noting how long it takes for baby to move 10 times.

There’s lots of ways to do this, but most people love the Count the Kicks app. There’s other apps out there too — you might want to see if your favorite pregnancy app already has it.

The amount of time this takes really varies person to person. This is my time to beg you to not compare your baby’s kick counts to anyone else’s. You’re only comparing YOUR baby to YOUR baby with this system.

Looking for more evidence-based pregnancy info — be sure to check out these posts:

• Do Birth Classes Improve Birth Outcomes? What do the studies show?
• Can You Drink Wine When You’re Pregnant: The studies for pregnant women
• 4 Things You Can Do to Prepare Your Cervix for Labor
• 5 Things You Need to Know About Preeclampsia
• Safest Age Gap Between Kids: For Health of Mom & Baby

Why this is the right way to do kick counts?

Because it really puts a “number” to what you’re feeling about baby moving.

That isn’t to say that monitoring baby throughout the day isn’t awesome, but we’re busy people — it can be hard to know if you’ve just gotten busy and ignored it, or if baby is truly moving less?

I will say, as a nurse, sometimes the “I’m just worried about baby” made it hard to really assess what was wrong and help the mom. That, vs the mom coming in to say that baby usually had 10 movements in 10 minutes and today she was well over 30 before getting 10 and she’d just like baby checked.

It sort of helps us know it’s not just general anxiety, but that you’re really monitoring it and being aware.

Also, this compares YOUR baby to YOUR baby.

Things that effect feeling fetal movement:

• Baby’s size — as you can imagine it’s harder to feel a smaller baby’s movements vs a larger one (a big part of why we don’t start til’ 27 weeks)
• Placental placement — if your placenta is in the front (called an anterior placenta) those movements are more likely to be “blunted” by the placenta — these parents often feel baby much less — and it is VERY important that they compare their baby to their baby vs what someone else feels.
• Baby’s position — If baby’s limbs are close to important structures you’re more likely to feel them move vs if their limbs are not
• Mom’s body — If the patient is larger, or smaller that can also effect how they feel the baby move.

Wish you’d gotten that cheat sheet? I’ve got it right here for you:

What are the other benefits to kick counts?

One of the other things I think a lot of people find themselves enjoying is the bonding they get as they just sit and feel for baby to move.

Maybe they dream about that positive future they’re both going to have too. It’s just a very positive time with a lot of benefits.

I also gotta remind you that getting prepared for your birth is another way to make your pregnancy more positive (and have a better birth). I recommend doing this.

Anxiety About Counting Kicks?

I hear a lot of people saying that counting baby’s movements will give them anxiety. This study showed that when done right (and they recommended using the Count the Kicks App) it can actually reduce anxiety.

This study also showed decreased anxiety, and more bonding with the baby.

If you’re worried it will make you worry, I would recommend giving it a try — and trying to dream and stay positive about it. This is a time to dream… that first smile, the time they realize what a Christmas tree is, that Halloween costume you’ll dress them in when they’re 2. There is so much good coming up with this little one. Dream.

What about just “monitoring fetal movement”?

I often hear on social media that they just “monitor fetal movement” and that’s enough — and I have to say that type of monitoring is showed in studies like this — where it’s not as concrete or systematic — and that does not show the benefits of how long it takes to get 10 movements.

This isn’t to say that you completely ignore fetal movement the rest of the time you’re not doing kick counts — you’re still going to keep an eye on it. That’s smart!

How to make kick counts work for you?

I get this, as a mom to many kids, and a busy nurse I sort of brushed kick counts to the side telling myself I was great at monitoring movements.

However, my doctor handed me a laminated card where I was to track my kick counts, which made me think it was more important.

Personally, I couldn’t do it the same time every day. On days I didn’t work I did it after dinner. That was a time that baby moved a lot, and I also got out of cleaning-up dinner.

When I worked, however, I’d try to do them as I sat charting sometime around dinner time — but it varied a lot. I just tried to do the best I could — if you do your best, that’s all you can do.

I have heard nothing about positive things about the Count the Kicks App — I’d encourage you to download it and see if you like it too.

Learning to make things work for you and your pregnancy is one of the smartest things you can do.

Come join me in The Online Prenatal Class for Couples where we give you evidence-based, non-biased tips for managing your pregnancy, labor, birth and life after baby.

Plus, it only takes a few hours, and you can do it from your couch (much like kick counts). I know you’ll love it (in fact we guarantee it).

So, are you doing kick counts? How are you making it work for you? Tell us in the comments!

The post When Should You Start Kick Counts? appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — if you’re looking to get prepared it really is the easy way to do it!

Links for you:

Timestamps:

00:00 Birth trauma: deeply personal, varies between individuals.

04:45 Start communication early to prevent birth trauma.

07:36 Understand expectations, communicate effectively, learn from experts.

Keypoints:

• Introduction to the topic of preventing birth trauma.
• Emphasis on the dual responsibility of both providers and patients in preventing birth trauma.
• Explanation of birth trauma as a deeply distressing or disturbing experience.
• Importance of understanding the normal processes and procedures during labor and delivery.
• Advocacy for learning effective communication with healthcare teams early in pregnancy.
• Encouragement to lower and manage expectations about labor, delivery, and postpartum periods.
• The significance of having realistic and correct expectations for the birth process.
• Promotion of the online prenatal class for couples as a resource to prepare for birth.
• Discussion about the prevalence of misrepresented birth experiences on social media and TV.
• Upcoming episodes on baby safety and the benefits of taking a hospital tour.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.000] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 253, we are talking about preventing birth trauma, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:09.930] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and the Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, the Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:30.290] – Hilary Erickson

Before we get started, I want to be sure that you understand that birth trauma has to be fought on both fronts, right?

[00:00:45.300] – Hilary Erickson

Providers 100% need to do better. But as patients, we can do better as well. And because my podcast is focused more on patients than providers, I’m going to tell you some things that you can do to help prevent birth trauma. So I’m not putting this all on your shoulders, but I’m saying you can help it, so why not give it a try?

[00:01:03.430] – Hilary Erickson

Today’s episode is sponsored by the online prenatal class for couples. We’re going to talk more about how it prevents birth trauma, but it is one of the best things you can do to have a great birth.

[00:01:12.780] – Hilary Erickson

Okay, before we get started, what is birth trauma? It is a trigger word a lot of times on social media. People are talking about trauma in lots of different ways, not just pregnancy.

[00:01:23.330] – Hilary Erickson

But trauma is a deeply distressing or disturbing experience. So something that you experience that was just really disturbing to you. And it really varies. That’s the tricky thing about trauma.

[00:01:34.500] – Hilary Erickson

One person can have an event and not find it traumatic, and one person can have the same event and find it very traumatic. So it’s always hard when people are saying, I had a birth where everyone came in to adjust the fetal heart rate monitoring, and that was extremely traumatic, whereas other people will be like, That wasn’t traumatic at all. I was so glad that they were there to save my baby, I don’t understand what your problem is.

[00:01:54.810] – Hilary Erickson

So we have to give the okay that everyone experiences things in their own way, and some people will find things traumatic that other people won’t find traumatic, and that’s okay.

[00:02:03.370] – Hilary Erickson

And as we do that, we realize that lots of different things can cause birth trauma, right? Things we did not plan. We all are like, Okay, you coded during your labor. That would be very traumatic to come back from the brink of death. We all can say that. Although sometimes I see parents who are just so grateful and don’t end up being traumatized by stuff like that. And I’m like, wow, either you’re shoving a lot deep down inside or you’re amazing that you do different things.

[00:02:29.080] – Hilary Erickson

So, lots of different things can cause birth trauma. And I’m always wildly surprised about the things that end up causing birth trauma. So what are four things that you can do to help prevent birth trauma in your upcoming birth? We’re going to talk about those things now.

[00:02:43.010] – Hilary Erickson

So the first one is to understand what’s going to happen. Honestly, I will say that some people are traumatized by the admitting process, the fact that you are in pain, and they’re like, What’s your name? What’s your social security number? Or however they’re going to identify you, they find that traumatic. They’re like, I just want to get to my room.

[00:03:00.550] – Hilary Erickson

Whereas if you understand it, you realize that they have to get you in the system. We have to be able to chart on you. We have to be able to pull up your prenatal records. If you understand why we’re doing that, it’s not just like, We’re trying to bill you, and I have a whole thing on that in the online prenatal class for couples.

[00:03:16.780] – Hilary Erickson

But understanding why they’re doing those specific things a lot of times can help. I’m just talking about the admission to labor and delivery. I’m not even talking about those five nurses that run in when we see the heart rate go down.

[00:03:27.540] – Hilary Erickson

And that can feel traumatic if you don’t understand that that is an everyday occasion to almost every patient in labor and delivery, right? Now, if I was on Med Surge and five nurses come running in my room, that is unusual.

[00:03:39.540] – Hilary Erickson

But it’s not in labor and delivery. So understanding what’s going to happen, what things are very normal, why things are happening that are very normal can really help. That’s why the online prenatal class for couples covers 95 to 99 % of very normal things that will happen in labor and delivery. So you just understand them and you know what’s going on. You feel very confident.

[00:03:59.400] – Hilary Erickson

I call it the scary stack because one thing happens, like the lady admitting wants her social security number and you can’t remember it. That’s the first book in your scary Stack. And then the next thing is you can’t understand how to put the hospital gown on, but you want to wear it. The third thing is they can’t find the baby on the monitor for 2 seconds, and you find that very distressing. And you start holding all these books, which are really very normal books and could go in your backpack, but you’re holding them. I call it the scary Stack. So you can put a lot of those things down when you understand that all this is very normal and it doesn’t need to be traumatizing.

[00:04:31.310] – Hilary Erickson

Okay, the second one is learning to communicate with your healthcare team. And wherever you’re at in your pregnancy, this is something that you start today. If you have any questions in your office, you’re asking your provider. When they say, It’s time to get a blood work for anemia, you go, Oh, really? Why?

[00:04:47.810] – Hilary Erickson

Even though it’s just a standard of care, you learning to say, Oh, why are we getting that? Is there something wrong with me? You can start having these conversations with your provider instead of just going like, Okay, and not really having a clue as to why we do it.

[00:05:01.900] – Hilary Erickson

You’re starting these communication things early. That’s why I recommend bringing a birth plan early, because a lot of times it just starts this communication in a really easy way, even if it doesn’t really affect what care you get during your birth. It’s starting those open communication pathways, because when you feel forced into something, that’s one of the biggest trauma triggers, right?

[00:05:22.280] – Hilary Erickson

If you feel like you don’t have any control over the situation and you can’t affect any change, that is a trauma trigger for a lot of people. But when you learn to communicate, when you learn how to say, I don’t understand what’s going on, when you learn how to ask, Is this a real emergency, or do we have a second to talk through things? It really can help with birth trauma. So understanding how to communicate early on at your next prenatal appointment is so important.

[00:05:46.280] – Hilary Erickson

And quick reminder, it’s not just about communicating with your provider. It’s everyone that you meet, the ultrasound tech, the nurse in the office, or the MA in the office, all these different things. You’re just learning to communicate with them because I don’t know if you know this or not, but when you’re in labor, you’re actually going to see your doctor for very little of the amount of time that you’re having your baby. You’re mostly going to see a labor and delivery nurse.

[00:06:07.150] – Hilary Erickson

So learning to talk with providers who aren’t your doctor or midwife is an important skill. Keep it up, ladies.

[00:06:13.540] – Hilary Erickson

Okay, the next one is to lower your expectations or to not have false expectations. A lot of us think you’re going to go into the hospital, you’ll probably have the baby within an hour because that’s always how it happens on TV. When you go in and you find out that you’ve got a long time waiting in pain in the hospital, and then it also takes two hours to push out the baby, that can be really disheartening.

[00:06:35.900] – Hilary Erickson

So lowering your expectations of yourself, the fact that you haven’t experienced this type of pain before, and although you’d like to avoid an epidural, it’s okay if you want to get an epidural, or you thought you didn’t want to have an induction throughout your pregnancy, and then all of a sudden you get to 39 weeks and you’re like, I’m done. I want this baby out. It seems safe to do it.

[00:06:55.150] – Hilary Erickson

Lowering your expectations is such a good thing to do throughout your life. That is like, I should rename the podcast, Lower your expectations, but it doesn’t have anything to do with Pulling Curls, so I can’t. But I feel like I talk about that so often on this podcast. Lower the expectations.

[00:07:11.610] – Hilary Erickson

And then finally, you need to have correct expectations. Understanding what’s going to happen at birth is going to help you modify your expectations.

[00:07:17.680] – Hilary Erickson

And I see this, especially in postpartum. We always see these adorable pictures with a mom looking like she has makeup on and her hair doesn’t look like Simba, and she’s loving her baby because that’s the picture people want. They don’t want the picture of them sleepless, no makeup on, hair looks like Simba, they’re yelling at their partner. Just understanding expectations for labor, pregnancy, birth is so important.

[00:07:41.190] – Hilary Erickson

Those are the four things that I recommend to decreasing your birth trauma. Let’s review them one more time. Lowering and having adequate expectations or correct expectations, I should say. Communicating with your healthcare team well and understanding what’s going to go on during this process. Don’t letting the three deliveries that you’ve seen on social media or on TV make you think that that’s what’s going to happen in the hospital because every birth is different and you need to learn from an expert.

[00:08:06.580] – Hilary Erickson

So come join me in the online prenatal class for couples. It is the easy way to get prepared for birth, and we really do prepare you from bump to bassinet so that you’re completely ready and it only takes three hours. It is completely virtual, and you can do it whenever you want. So I would love to see you guys in there.

[00:08:21.930] – Hilary Erickson

And of course, I hope that as OB providers, we are working on our end to make birth less traumatic in general. But I hope you guys want to do the things on your part that can help prevent it as well.

[00:08:33.330] – Hilary Erickson

Stay tuned. Next week, we are talking with one of my good friends about baby safety. And then the week after that, we’re going to talk about why take a hospital tour. So stay tuned.

[00:08:42.120] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls Podcast today. If you liked today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

Pulling Curls podcast, birth trauma prevention, Hilary Erickson, episode 253, preventing birth trauma, pregnancy nurse, birth trauma definition, patient empowerment, traumatic birth events, preparing for childbirth, online prenatal class, couples prenatal class, understanding labor, labor and delivery process, hospital admission process, fetal heart rate monitoring, communicating with healthcare team, birth plan, trauma triggers, managing childbirth pain, postpartum expectations, realistic birth expectations, labor expectations, childbirth education, healthcare communication, prenatal care, labor nurse interaction, birth trauma causes, hospital birth experience, pregnancy advice.

The post The Role of Preparation in Preventing Birth Trauma appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — if you’re looking to navigate pregnancy with more confidence, it is the course for you.

Today’s guest is Kathleen Gunter — a Nursing Instructor and PhD student whose research focus is on maternal mental health following miscarriage. After experiencing a miscarriage with her first pregnancy, Kathleen developed a passion for helping other moms feel less alone as they navigate the emotional journey that follows losing a baby. Find her on Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@balancedishchaos

Links for you:

Episode 227: Beyond the Rainbow: Pregnancy After Stillbirth with Winter Redd from Still a Part of Us Podcast

Timestamps:

00:00 Study on experiences of mothers after miscarriage.
05:57 Fear of causing harm during second pregnancy.
08:52 Women experienced ambivalence and emotional detachment in pregnancy.
10:17 Navigating loss and finding joy amid uncertainty.
13:31 “Social support crucial for healing after pregnancy loss.”
18:18 Supportive women can help during difficult times.
19:47 Stay tuned for more on Pulling Curls.

Keypoints:

• Introduction to episode 240 of The Pulling Curls Podcast, focusing on miscarriage and motherhood.
• Hilary Erickson, RN, introduces herself and the podcast’s aim to simplify pregnancy and parenting.
• Today’s guest, Kathleen Gunter, a PhD student researching mental health after miscarriage, is introduced.
• Discussion on Kathleen’s study of mothers pregnant again after a previous loss, which included interviews with 7 women.
• Identification of three major themes from the study: emotional distress, fearful anticipation, and ambivalence.
• Insights into the anxiety, worry, and hypervigilance women experience in subsequent pregnancies after a miscarriage.
• The tendency of women to reach certain pregnancy milestones and the emotional significance of these benchmarks.
• The impact of social support on mental health after miscarriage, emphasizing support from individuals with similar experiences.
• The importance of healthcare provider support post-miscarriage and the current lack of adequate follow-up care.
• Encouragement for women to openly discuss their experiences to find solidarity and support, both personally and within the healthcare system.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.820] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. This week on episode 240, we are talking about miscarriage and motherhood. Let’s untangle it.

[00:00:11.140] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and The Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, The Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:39.940] – Hilary Erickson

This episode is sponsored by the online prenatal class for couples. If you’re interested in clearing any previous birth trauma or just getting prepared for your birth, come join us in there. It truly is the easy way to get prepared for your birth. It’s available 24/7. It’s meant to turn your partner into a teammate, not just a cheerleader. And it’s the all-in-one birth class that people love.

[00:01:00.980] – Hilary Erickson

Today’s guest is a PhD student who’s research focuses on motherhood and mental health following a miscarriage. She has previously had a miscarriage of her own. I wanted to introduce today’s guest, Kathleen Gunter.

[00:01:13.870] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, Kathleen. Welcome to the Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:01:15.890] – Kathleen Gunter

Hi, good morning.

[00:01:16.590] – Hilary Erickson

Good morning. I met Kathleen at the AWON conference.

[00:01:19.080] – Hilary Erickson

We sat next to each other in some session, and she was like, I love podcasts. And I was like, do you want to come on mine? Because she has a really interesting… Is it a master’s or PhD? Phd, right?

[00:01:29.100] – Kathleen Gunter

So I’m working on my PhD, yes.

[00:01:31.560] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. And it’s your dissertation?

[00:01:33.280] – Kathleen Gunter

So my PhD is in nursing science, and my research focus is on… Currently, it’s on mental health and specifically the emotional growth in women following miscarriage.

[00:01:44.780] – Hilary Erickson

Yes, which is super interesting to me. I bet a large number of people listening to my podcast in general have had a miscarriage, just because most of the people I associate with online are saying they had issues with miscarriage and going forward in motherhood and pregnancy. So I’m so excited to have you on, Kathleen. Thank you.

[00:02:02.570] – Kathleen Gunter

I’m so excited to be here.

[00:02:04.460] – Hilary Erickson

Okay. What did you learn in your study?

[00:02:06.390] – Kathleen Gunter

Okay, so the study that actually am going to talk about today, that when we met at the conference, I was presenting the poster on this research that I had done, which is actually a little bit different than what I’m studying for my dissertation. But funny enough, it led me in the direction of what I wanted to do for my dissertation.

[00:02:23.040] – Kathleen Gunter

So this study that I did as part of a course during my PhD program, specifically was I’m focusing on the experience that mothers had in pregnancy following a miscarriage. So women who had previously experienced loss, and then they were pregnant again. And I wanted to figure out what was their experience in that pregnancy again.

[00:02:47.440] – Kathleen Gunter

Because me personally, I had a miscarriage back in 2018. It was my first pregnancy. And so I always say 100% of my pregnancies had ended in miscarriage at that point. My provider was a wonderful provider. But she even said herself, she said, Well, we don’t really get concerned until you have three or more. I remember thinking, But this is 100% of my pregnancies. You don’t care about it until I have two more. I have to go through two more for you to really care, which care is not exactly the right word. She cared.

[00:03:23.560] – Kathleen Gunter

That whole experience for me just lit a fire for me to want to talk to these women who have gone through this experience. Then I now have two children, actually. But I had experienced one pregnancy after my loss when I started going through the PhD program, and I was like, I really want to focus on that.

[00:03:42.700] – Kathleen Gunter

The study that I did in particular involved It was a qualitative study. I talked to a total of seven women. Funny enough, I ended up having over 65 women reach out to me. When I was recruiting for the study online, within 24 hours, I had over 50 women who wanted to talk to me, which alone shows you how many people just want to be heard and talk about what the experience is like.

[00:04:06.480] – Kathleen Gunter

I had over 50 people talk to me, ended up reaching saturation after only seven, which I was like, I’m so sorry, I can’t talk to all of you, but ended up only needing to talk to seven, and just talk to them about what their experience was like. What was it like to be pregnant again after experiencing loss? The study was very interesting.

[00:04:25.230] – Kathleen Gunter

We know that the research and the literature says that women who experience miscarriage have mental health conditions afterwards. Symptoms of anxiety and depression and post-traumatic stress are rampant in this population of women.

[00:04:38.930] – Kathleen Gunter

As part of the study, I found three themes. That’s the way that the qualitative study works, is you look for these themes when you’re going through the research and through the recordings of the conversations. The three things that emerged from the study was emotional distress, fearful anticipation, and ambivalence.

[00:04:58.030] – Kathleen Gunter

These women really had a negative emotional impact during the subsequent pregnancy as a direct result of their first loss. They were nervous, they were terrified, they had loss of hope, excessive worry. That excessive worry, that resulted in this hypervigilance and this anguish over anything that happened, any twinge or any pain. I can speak firsthand. I was the exact same way. Any twinge, I’d be like, Oh my gosh, something’s wrong. When really your body has all sorts of crazy things during pregnancy that are very normal. But when you’ve had that loss, you just assume that something’s wrong every single time you feel any something.

[00:05:38.940] – Hilary Erickson

Yes. And I see that so much in my groups online. Everyone’s like, they take everything as a sign. And I think they always are thinking back, what happened? What did I do last time to make this happen? And I got to reassure a lot of people that there was nothing that you did. It’s just how things happen so much of the time.

[00:05:57.310] – Kathleen Gunter

Yes, exactly. But when it’s your first one, especially, you just assume that it was something that you did, and you almost can’t be convinced otherwise. You cannot be convinced that it wasn’t something that you did. When that’s not true at all, it’s just easy to get in your head and wonder, Okay, well, what can I do differently this time so that I don’t, quote, unquote, cause it for this second pregnancy?

[00:06:20.030] – Kathleen Gunter

They had fear that they were going to lose their second pregnancy because they had lost it the first time. So often, they would just desperately voice this desire to protect themselves and protect the baby. And so they were relentless about not doing anything that would potentially harm themselves or harm the baby. So things that are doctor approved during a pregnancy, like exercise or sex or jumping too high or even certain skin care, they wouldn’t use it. And even though we knew that it was safe, they just were like, why didn’t want to do anything that would potentially harm the pregnancy.

[00:07:01.040] – Kathleen Gunter

Then something that I also experienced firsthand and was very obvious in the conversations with the women was that they just desperately wanted to reach those pregnancy milestones. They had to get to 20 weeks viability. They had to have reassurance through ultrasounds. Something that was interesting was every single person talked about how they just wanted to reach the week of gestation where they had lost the previous baby.

[00:07:29.430] – Kathleen Gunter

So from my experience, I lost my first baby at 10 weeks. And so I remember in my next pregnancy, when I got to 11 weeks, I was like, Oh, my God, I did it. I got past that point. But then there’s always a new goalpost, right? Well, now let me just get to 16. And then when I start feeling the baby, and then now let me get to 20. And then now… You always move the goalpost. But just reaching that point of gestation where the first baby was lost was a huge recurring theme that these women talked about.

[00:07:59.080] – Hilary Erickson

Yes. And I see see that so much in my group. And people are like, Well, once the baby is here, then I won’t have that. And I’m like, You’re going to have that the rest of your life. My kid’s 24, and I still am like, Oh, you’re going on a trip? Oh, you’re driving up just a couple hours away? And in my head, I’m like, And he’s going to die. He’s going to die in a car crash, so that’s too bad. I’ve had a good run with this one.

[00:08:19.650] – Kathleen Gunter

Yeah, exactly. And I don’t know if you know anything about Enneagrams, but I’m in Enneagram 6, and the definition of that is excessive worry and worst case scenario in catastrophizing. And so the combination of miscarriage and that personality, and now motherhood and that personality, it’s just I stay stressed and anxious all the time. But reaching those milestones didn’t necessarily fix that, but that’s just what it is, I guess.

[00:08:49.380] – Hilary Erickson

It helps make it better. I get it.

[00:08:52.460] – Kathleen Gunter

And so then the interesting, the third theme that I found was ambivalence. So these women who had experienced pregnancy after loss, they were so excited initially to be pregnant again. And then it was just almost immediately overshadowed by fear and dread. And they didn’t really know how to feel. They were confused, and then they often felt guilty about their confusing emotions. So they would be so excited, and then they would feel worry and anxiety, and then they would feel guilt because they weren’t excited. And women who had had multiple miscarriages, they all expressed that they emotionally detached from the pregnancy.

[00:09:30.120] – Kathleen Gunter

I remember one of the women that I talked to, she had had, I think, four or five miscarriages. And in her last pregnancy, she didn’t decorate the nursery until she was 38 weeks pregnant. She didn’t acknowledge that the baby was coming. She said the week before she got induced, she sat in the nursery and just cried because she couldn’t accept the fact that she was actually having a baby because she had lost so many.

[00:09:57.190] – Kathleen Gunter

And so this overwhelming void, almost, of emotion just to have some self-preservation. Because if you don’t get attached to the baby, then you’re not going to hurt when you lose the pregnancy, right? Which I don’t know if Brené Brown is somebody that you listen to, but She was really helpful for me as I walked through my experience, and she talks about vulnerability, and she talks about joy, and she talks about not letting the fear of life take away the joy of the moment.

[00:10:27.930] – Kathleen Gunter

And it’s hard to do that when you’re walking through loss, but it doesn’t hurt any less. Just because you prepare yourself for loss doesn’t mean you’re going to hurt less. It’s just almost accepting, Yes, I have had a loss in the past. I have no control over this current pregnancy now. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t find joy in the pregnancy that I have now, even if the outcome isn’t exactly what I want. I can love this baby for the time period that I have the baby, regardless of the outcome.

[00:10:59.950] – Kathleen Gunter

It was a very interesting study. It was very eye-opening. It actually turned, I mentioned earlier, it turned my focus from the subsequent pregnancy, actually, just to focusing on the miscarriage itself, because I started this study with the intent of expecting to find all these things in the subsequent pregnancy. All the women wanted to do was just talk about the loss.

[00:11:24.530] – Kathleen Gunter

All they wanted to do was just talk about the miscarriage experience. They’re like, Yeah, I was pregnant, and this is what I I experience, because you’re asking me these questions, but I actually just want to talk about the loss.

[00:11:34.310] – Kathleen Gunter

That’s how I pivoted my research focus to, Okay, what is it about the miscarriage experience, specifically, that keeps these women wanting to go back and talk about that? What did they not get during that miscarriage experience that would have helped them heal? What would have been beneficial for them to receive? Anyway, so that’s how I ended up pivoting my focus for my dissertation study itself.

[00:11:59.410] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. When I read books from back in the old fashioned days, the women didn’t even attach to these babies for a year. They had a baby and they were just like, We’ll see. When you get a plant and you put it in the ground, if you’re not a green thumb like me, you’re just like, I’m not attached to this plant because there’s a good chance it’s not going to make it.

[00:12:20.020] – Hilary Erickson

I feel like women in pioneer times or medieval times just were like, We’ll just see. We’ll see if that ends up being a thing. And I- obviously we don’t want that in our moms today. We want them to be able to attach the baby during pregnancy. A lot of times I see people with ultrasounds. They go to the ultrasound, and the ultrasound tech is so medically about it. And I’m like, The ultrasound is such an important part of seeing that baby is seeing the baby’s a human, bonding with the baby during pregnancy so that you can build up those feelings and be a great parent once baby comes out. So I think it’s so important.

[00:12:54.920] – Kathleen Gunter

Yeah, I completely agree. Every step throughout the pregnancy, there’s purpose behind it, and it gives you just every opportunity to bond. And it’s been a really interesting and really eye-opening. And I have absolutely loved my research that I have done so far, and I can’t wait to do it for the rest of my career.

[00:13:19.260] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, that’s amazing. So is there anything that women did when they were feeling these feelings that could help? Because I bet the people on here are like, Okay, great. Yeah, I feel like that, too. But what am I supposed to do with all those feelings?

[00:13:31.220] – Kathleen Gunter

Right. Yeah. So the study that… That study, specifically, didn’t talk… I didn’t dive into any of the recovery part of it. But through my dissertation research, I have studied a lot about what can help, quote, recover, and how can we heal through all of it. And one of the major things that I’ve looked at is social support. So I can’t tell you specifically social support in the subsequent pregnancy, but I’ve done a lot of research on social support following miscarriage, specifically.

[00:14:03.970] – Kathleen Gunter

There’s just so much research to back how important that social support is, whether it’s from… Research shows that the highest or most effective form of social support is going to be from individuals who have had a similar loss. So talking to women who have also had a miscarriage, or if it’s a stillbirth, talking to women who have also had a stillbirth, walking through that with them because they can empathize, and you can empathize with each other, and there’s nothing that’s going to take that hurt away. But having those people around you who can just hold your hand and walk through it and understand how painful it is so, so important.

[00:14:41.050] – Kathleen Gunter

So social support increases at least a better mental health, better physical health, and improved quality of life. Through support groups or friends or family that have had a similar loss, partner support doesn’t typically show to be as effective as who have had a similar loss, but it’s just different. Your partner is there to be a Sounding Board as well in a different way than women who have had that similar loss. Really just talking about it, finding your people that you can talk to about it, who understand what you’re going through.

[00:15:13.120] – Kathleen Gunter

Then another really effective form of support was being a sounding board for women who are following behind you. So anybody who you find out has had a miscarriage, opening up and saying, Oh, I always say it’s you don’t want to join, but it’s a huge club of women who hate to be in it but are glad that there are other people in the club with you. Just finding those people and you being that person for somebody else, too, when they have experienced a miscarriage after you. And then interestingly enough, there’s a lot of research that shows how important that support is from health care providers.

[00:15:54.700] – Kathleen Gunter

And unfortunately, there’s not a lot of support from health care providers in this particular situation. There was a research study actually done in 2021, and nearly 60% of women… I think there was about 400 women in the study, and nearly 60% of those women were offered no support after they experienced a miscarriage. And only 37% of the women actually even receive follow-up care at six weeks. So it’s an area that has a huge gap and lots of room for improvement.

[00:16:28.780] – Kathleen Gunter

And it seems, you know It affects so many people. It affects so many women. There’s just not the care that we need, the follow-up care post-loss that we really need. I think just verbalizing and being very specific about talking to your health care provider, I need to see you again at six weeks.

[00:16:46.080] – Kathleen Gunter

Your body’s going through a mini postpartum experience. You’re still having all of the hormones. Just being very vocal about, This is what I need. I want information on support groups, being willing to talk about it. It’s hard to talk about, But research shows that you heal and your mental health is so much better when you talk about it.

[00:17:06.940] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, I think that’s so true. And I had on the podcast my friend Winter, who runs the podcast Still A Part Of Us, that’s about stillbirth and Infant Loss, that people might find helpful if they’re not wanting to go to a support group. But I think an in-person support group is obviously probably the gold standard for that because it’s friends you can meet for coffee in your community.

[00:17:25.660] – Kathleen Gunter

Exactly. And there is a lot of people at the conference in Phoenix that I had support groups in various different states that I always ran into their table, and I was like, Tell me more about your support group. So, yeah, finding those people is so important.

[00:17:40.070] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. And hopefully, we, as health care providers, can get better. And the more you voice what you want, Because a lot of people just want to forget it, right? That’s what we’re thinking. And especially during the minutes that you’re in the health care setting, you want to forget those minutes for the most part. And so if we get better, and the more you ask, the more we’ll be like, Oh, this might be some the information, I want to volunteer. You can help us get better when you voice what you want. I always try and remind people that.

[00:18:05.610] – Kathleen Gunter

Exactly.

[00:18:05.890] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. Well, great research. So helpful. I think it’s so important that people not feel alone in this and realize that other people are struggling, too. And that this base is large. I think the majority of people that are pregnant have previously had a loss. Oh, yes.

[00:18:19.740] – Kathleen Gunter

Very wide range of women who could use all the support possible out there and know that they… I think the biggest thing is just to remember that you are not alone. People don’t want to talk about it. I think that’s getting better. People are more willing to talk about it these days than they were previously, but it still almost seems taboo.

[00:18:39.450] – Kathleen Gunter

Just remember that I guarantee anybody who is going through this, if you just open up and mention it, there will be women probably around you who have gone through the exact same thing that you didn’t even know that they had gone through it. And so finding those people and being willing to talk about it, you will instantly, I’m certain, be surrounded by supportive women.

[00:19:01.590] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for coming on, Kathleen. I think this is great information. And people can always join us on Instagram. If you guys have found great support somewhere, please come tell us on Instagram so other people can find that support elsewhere.

[00:19:14.170] – Kathleen Gunter

Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:19:16.630] – Hilary Erickson

Okay. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I wish that no one needed this episode, but in my groups and on Instagram, I feel like this is needed more than anything else. So when I heard what her dissertation was on, I was super excited to have her on. And I I hope you guys enjoyed it. Again, please come join us over on Instagram. If this brought up any feelings or thoughts. Come join us so we can have that chat over on Instagram.

[00:19:39.290] – Hilary Erickson

Stay tuned. Next week, we are talking about the scarcity mindset of parenting. And then the week after that, we are talking about things to do the day before your induction. So stay tuned.

[00:19:49.850] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

miscarriage, motherhood, pregnancy, mental health, anxiety, depression, post traumatic stress, emotional growth, first pregnancy, subsequent pregnancy, pregnancy loss, pregnancy milestones, ultrasounds, support groups, healthcare providers, social support, partners, healing, mental health support, physical health, quality of life, stillbirth, infant loss, hormones, postpartum experience, research study, PhD student, nursing science, emotional distress, pregnant again, miscarriage experience

The post Navigating Pregnancy After Miscarriage appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — if you’re looking for the easy way to get prepared for birth, it’s here for you!

Links for you:

My video on Aspirin in pregnancy.

Timestamps:

00:00 Screening for preeclampsia, talking to your provider.
04:14 Consider baby aspirin for preeclampsia; weigh risks.
06:37 Sudden swelling, headaches, and liver pain signs.
10:15 Upcoming episode on motherhood and miscarriage.

Keypoints:

• Hilary Erickson, RN, the host, introduces the topic of aspirin use in pregnancy.
• Preeclampsia is explained as a condition involving the narrowing of small arteries, potentially leading to high blood pressure, organ issues, and severe complications like eclampsia.
• Benefits of aspirin in reducing the risk of preeclampsia are discussed, with an emphasis on starting low-dose aspirin (81 mg) around 12 weeks of pregnancy.
• The host underscores the importance of consulting a healthcare provider before starting aspirin during pregnancy.
• Aspirin’s safety and lack of increased bleeding risks during pregnancy are supported by numerous studies, including some conducted in Europe with higher doses.
• Specific risk factors for preeclampsia are listed, such as hypertension, kidney issues, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, multiple gestations, and more.
• Symptoms of preeclampsia are detailed, including high blood pressure, headache, dizziness, blurry vision, swelling, and right-sided rib pain.
• The ease of diagnosing preeclampsia through urine and blood tests is highlighted, encouraging listeners to consult their providers if they experience symptoms.
• Hilary addresses concerns about aspirin’s historical contraindications during pregnancy and reassures listeners about the new, evidence-based recommendations.
• The episode concludes with a call to normalize discussions about aspirin use in pregnancy among friends, family, and healthcare providers, to disseminate this crucial information.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.610] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on Episode 238, we are talking about Aspirin in pregnancy, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:08.100] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and the pregnancy nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with pregnancy and parenting untangled, The Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:38.340] – Hilary Erickson

This episode of the Pulling Curls podcast is sponsored by the online prenatal class for couples. One of the best things you can do for your pregnancy is to get informed by things like this episode and other things. But it’s really important that you get it prepared from beginning to end. So come join me in the online prenatal class for couples. It truly is the easy way to get prepared for birth. Right before my hiatus, I did a campaign with the March of Dines about aspirin during pregnancy, and I looked up all this information about aspirin pregnancy, why it’s helpful, and I wanted to share that information with you guys today.

[00:01:08.850] – Hilary Erickson

So first off, let’s talk about what preeclampsia is. Aspirin is meant to reduce your risk of preeclampsia. But what is preeclampsia? In case you don’t know, it is a narrowing of the small arteries across the body. A high blood pressure is a symptom of preeclampsia. It happens in about one in 25 pregnancy. It can cause high blood pressure, kidney and other organ issues if it continues. And ultimately, it can progress to eclampsia, which if you’re a down and Abbey fan, you would know about with Lady Sibyl, can cause seizures and ultimately death.

[00:01:39.900] – Hilary Erickson

And it can have other side effects on babies, such as small babies, which we call IUGR, low birth weight on the baby and can cause placental abruption, which is when your placenta detaches from your uterus, which can cause bleeding.

[00:01:53.380] – Hilary Erickson

And it can have long term health issues for both mom and baby. So preventing it or decreasing a risk of it is a huge deal.

[00:02:01.010] – Hilary Erickson

Now, everybody needs to be screened for preeclampsia on aspirin or not on aspirin. At your regular appointments, they likely do a urine dip to check for protein. They check your blood pressure at every appointment. And you can actually self-screen about aspirin prior to your first appointment.

[00:02:16.920] – Hilary Erickson

You can go through to see if you are at an increased risk for preeclampsia, and then you might be at a benefit for taking aspirin. Now, that is something that you need to talk with your provider about. So I’m not giving you the A Okay to take aspirin. You need to talk with them because there are instances in which you should not take aspirin, and I need you to talk with your provider about that.

[00:02:36.470] – Hilary Erickson

So aspirin, they usually recommend a low dose aspirin. So back in the day, we called that baby aspirin, but it’s an 81 milligram dose of aspirin that you start at about 12 weeks of pregnancy. And the idea is that it is helping your placenta as it grows, just open up and have the best chance at blood supply and things like that as it and the baby is growing. Now, first off, I love Love how cheap this is when they came and asked me to help out with that campaign. Aspirin is extremely cheap. It’s just the one you get at the drug store. Some people’s insurance will pay for it if your doctor writes a prescription. But if you forget it, you can run by the Dollar tree and grab it.

[00:03:14.730] – Hilary Erickson

And This can help you and your baby prevent preeclampsia, which I think is awesome. Now, aspirin use in pregnancy has changed a bunch since I have been a labor nurse and also since your mom had a baby. So your parents, siblings, whoever, might start freaking out when you say that you’re taking aspirin during your pregnancy. It has been a big no-no for a long time during pregnancy until they started studying this. Now, I had my first patient who was on aspirin probably five years ago early on the scene, and they said it was to help prevent preeclampsia, which I thought was super exciting. But of course, I was worried because aspirin often can have the side effect of bleeding.

[00:03:51.010] – Hilary Erickson

I will say that I have combed all the studies that I have found. There have been no increases in bleeding, especially at postpartum, because of course, the nurse in me is worried that you’re going to bleed after baby’s born. Nobody wants that happening. But there has not been an increased incidence of bleeding or hemorrhage when you’re taking aspirin during your pregnancy. And you have to remember that this is a pretty small amount.

[00:04:11.370] – Hilary Erickson

In talking with some of the researchers in Europe, they use a larger amount. In the US, we’re being very conservative with just a baby aspirin.

[00:04:18.740] – Hilary Erickson

Of course, I have to say, not everyone should be taking it, so you need to talk with your provider. As with anything in pregnancy, there are risks and benefits that we need to weigh to make sure if it’s the right thing for you.

[00:04:28.640] – Hilary Erickson

Now, I wanted to talk through some of the risk factors for preeclampsia. They include high blood pressure or hypertension before you got pregnant or at any point in your pregnancy, kidney issues, autoimmune issues like lupus, diabetes. If you’ve had preeclampsia on previous pregnancies, either your direct sibling or your mom having preeclampsia, so not the same as if your grandma had it, you’re looking for a sibling or a mom. If you’re pregnant with twins or twiplets, multiple gestation. If you’re overweight, if you’ve had a previous preterm birth or a low birth weight birth, birth, so a small baby, if you’re African-American or Black, if you’re over 35, if you’ve had IVF, if you’re experiencing financial hardships or stressors, and it’s your first baby.

[00:05:10.890] – Hilary Erickson

So as I read through these, I think people start to get really defensive. I hear people sometimes saying, I shouldn’t have to talk about my weight during my pregnancy. And I’m sure there are people when we ask you if you have financial stressors, are worried that we’re being judgy of you. And that’s not the case at all. We’re really asking these questions to check how much stress is your body in, how much stress are you in? So that we can best help you. So I know that some of those questions can feel offensive, but I don’t want you to feel that way at all. So if you have any of those, they recommend that you start a low dose aspirin starting about 12 weeks of pregnancy. They find that it’s best if you start at least by 20 weeks of pregnancy.

[00:05:48.560] – Hilary Erickson

If you guys are listening into it later in your pregnancy and you have some of those things, please talk with your provider at your next appointment to see if it would be right for you. Again, we’re trying to take it at the time when the placenta is growing the most. So if you were only taking it in your last month of pregnancy, I don’t know that the risks would outweigh the benefits at that point.

[00:06:05.420] – Hilary Erickson

And I do know that some people are on aspirin even earlier due to IVF or other issues. And so those people do those people, right? And I did want to quickly go through the symptoms of preeclampsia, so high blood pressure. And now when we say high blood pressure, that means high blood pressure for you. So if you’re a low blood pressure writer and suddenly one of the numbers has jumped 20, then that’s high blood pressure for you, right? And I think that’s really important to mention. Headache, dizziness, blurry vision. Swelling can be a thing, but a lot of people just have swelling. But when it’s a quick onset of swelling, a lot of times people will notice in their face or their nose, that can be a sign of it, as well as right excited pain right below your ribs or your bra line can be your liver is starting to get enlarged. So that shows that your body is getting over this, right?

[00:06:54.480] – Hilary Erickson

One of the things with headache, I’ve heard several times that if you feel like you have the worst headache of your life and you’re pregnant or postpartum, because remember, the preeclampsia can show up any time in that first year, although usually it’s within the first six weeks after a baby is born.

[00:07:09.070] – Hilary Erickson

If you have the worst headache of your life, I totally recommend that you go call your provider, something along those lines. Now, a lot of people get worried with this. So it must be a very complicated disease. Us checking for preeclampsia is pretty easy. It doesn’t involve usually a urine and a blood draw, but it is very easy for us to tell if you either don’t have anything at all, if you just have high blood pressure, or if you have preeclampsia.

[00:07:32.380] – Hilary Erickson

So don’t worry that it’s a big, huge deal to be diagnosed as this. It’s not. It’s very easy to do through lab work. So if you have any concern at all and you’re later in pregnancy, talk with your provider, even if you’re on aspirin. So aspirin is going to lower your chance of getting preeclampsia. It could also lower the severity of getting preeclampsia, or it may even change like you get it later in pregnancy than you would have otherwise. Those are the three things that they’re seeing in the studies. So the three things I want you to take away from this episode is no matter how far along you are, I would ask your provider about aspirin at your next appointment.

[00:08:06.560] – Hilary Erickson

I am seeing a lot of providers who are really hesitant to recommend this, which is a red flag for me. The studies and across the board, generally in OB care, most providers are recommending it if you have the risk factor. So talk with your provider about it at your next appointment just to see what they say, unless you’re in your last month. And I probably wouldn’t. I would save that precious prenatal appointment time for other things.

[00:08:29.800] – Hilary Erickson

Second thing is if your friends or family are like, oh, my gosh, you’re on aspirin. That’s not good for you, to reassure them that this is new research, new and exciting research that’s coming out. And tell them to take a listen to this episode because it really is exciting that we’re even studying medications that you can take in pregnancy for so long. We’ve just been like, Well, we’ll just treat it when it happens, and I’m excited that we’re doing something to prevent it.

[00:08:53.070] – Hilary Erickson

And third, I would encourage you guys to mention this to pregnant friends, pregnant neighbors, people in groups, so that it starts to become the norm. When we started laying babies on their back instead of their belly to sleep, that was a big change.

[00:09:06.060] – Hilary Erickson

And I know when I had babies, my mom was like, Oh, now that baby needs to go on her belly. And that is not the case. We now know that there is a decreased chance of Sids if we put baby on their back. Same thing for this. This is a big change. And the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it with our pregnant friends, a baby showers, and all those different kinds of things, the more likely people are going to be to take it.

[00:09:27.220] – Hilary Erickson

Because I do see in my groups every now and then people saying, My provider recommended that I take aspirin, and I can’t believe they did that. They’re trying to poison me, which that has so many issues in and of itself. But if you think your doctor is poisoning you, please find a new doctor. And also, if your doctor recommend something, I always encourage you to go home and do your own research if you have any questions or concerns, or talk with pregnant friends to see if it’s the norm, which this is the norm.

[00:09:54.060] – Hilary Erickson

So exciting that we are studying things in pregnancy. So exciting that this is a cheap and effective way to reduce your risk of preeclampsia because we are seeing more and more preeclampsia the further we get into life right now. So let’s try and reduce it as much as we can. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

[00:10:11.020] – Hilary Erickson

Stay tuned next week. We are talking about having fun at home, which sounds silly, but join me. It’s going to be a fun episode. And then the next time we’re talking about motherhood and miscarriage and how that can affect your motherhood journey. So stay tuned.

[00:10:24.580] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

aspirin in pregnancy, preeclampsia, eclampsia, high blood pressure during pregnancy, prenatal care, pregnancy complications, low dose aspirin, aspirin benefits, aspirin risks, preeclampsia symptoms, pregnancy health, pregnancy screening, urine dip test, blood pressure monitoring, placental abruption, pregnancy medication, preeclampsia prevention, pregnancy risk factors, high blood pressure issues, IUGR, low birth weight, pregnant with twins, multiple gestation, pregnancy stress, pregnancy weight, IVF and preeclampsia, financial stressors in pregnancy, aspirin dosage, labor nurse insights, pregnancy studies

The post Aspirin and Pregnancy: Reducing the Risk of Preeclampsia appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — getting prepared is one of the biggest things you CAN control.

Links for you:

My episode with my friend Onjali

My episode with my friend Rachel

Timestamps:

00:00 Simplify pregnancy and parenting, debunking myths.
05:10 Embrace control over our thoughts and actions.
07:15 Prepare for any birth scenario, stay calm.

Keypoints:

Sure! Here are 10 bullet points summarizing episode 236 of The Pulling Curls Podcast:

1. Episode Introduction:
   • “The biggest myth of pregnancy” is the focus of episode 236.
   • Hilary Eickson, RN, introduces herself and her goals for the podcast.
2. Control in Pregnancy:
   • The primary myth discussed is the belief that one has control over pregnancy and childbirth.
3. Lack of Control:
   • Specific examples of things that cannot be controlled: baby’s position, onset of gestational diabetes, timing of delivery.
4. Personal Anecdotes:
   • Hilary shares her personal experience of going 12 days overdue with her last baby, challenging her own desire for control.
5. Birth Plans:
   • Importance of birth plans emphasized, but not as a means of control.
   • Hilary shares her love for detailed and creative birth plans but advises against creating them with the intention to control the birth process.
6. Attitude and Response:
   • You can control your attitude, feelings, and actions in response to events during pregnancy and childbirth.
7. Adjusting Expectations:
   • A positive attitude towards unexpected outcomes, e.g., being open to a c-section if needed.
   • Encourages flexibility in birth plan expectations.
8. Parenthood Control:
   • The lack of control extends beyond pregnancy into parenting; highlighting that controlling children is often impossible.
9. Therapy and Preparedness:
   • Advocates for therapy to help manage control issues and recommends being prepared for various birth outcomes.
   • Importance of taking general birth classes to prepare for all possible scenarios.
10. Season 6 Preview:
    • Brief overview of upcoming episodes on weight loss journey and aspirin use in pregnancy.
    • Encouragement to stay tuned and support the podcast through reviews and sharing.
      These bullet points capture the essence and key messages of the episode.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.000] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 236, we are starting season 6 out with a banger. This is the biggest myth of pregnancy. Let’s untangle it.

[00:00:13.040] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and The Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, The Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:41.100] – Hilary Erickson

This episode is sponsored by the Online Prenatal Class for Couples. If you are looking to understand all of your different options in pregnancy and birth, come join me because it’s going to help you realize that this is a myth, but there are things you can do to help it out.

[00:00:55.300] – Hilary Erickson

Okay, I would love to know what you guys think is the biggest myth in pregnancy. So come tell me over in Instagram before you get started in this episode. I think that would be fun. But for me, as someone who’s watched thousands of people go through birth and pregnancy and talks to pregnant people all the time on social media, it is that you have some control.

[00:01:15.100] – Hilary Erickson

Guys, I love control so much. Maybe you love control, but I feel like I love control more than the average person. I like to feel like I have direct… I have hands-on direct action in whatever the results are, right? And I think a lot of people love control. But the reality is during pregnancy, there really are a lot of things that you have no control over. And I came up with just a few things to talk about that I see people feeling like they should be able to control, but they can’t always control.

[00:01:44.530] – Hilary Erickson

You can’t control if the baby flips head down, and you can’t control if they flip up at any point. A lot of times people are like, Oh, good. My baby’s head down. I’m going to be 100 % fine. And then they go to delivery and find out that baby has not head down anymore. And they’re like, Oh, my gosh, what happened? I thought we in a good spot, right?

[00:02:01.100] – Hilary Erickson

At any point in time, your baby could do something that was super annoying and would change your birth plan, and you have absolutely no control over that. And I’m not giving this episode to just make you guys stress out about it, because, again, the stress isn’t helping any of this at all. It’s just helping you realize that you don’t have control.

[00:02:19.560] – Hilary Erickson

Actually, as I’m doing this, my friend Anjali came on the podcast a few years ago. She had terminal cancer and was just talking about the hospital stay that she was at, where she realized she really just didn’t have control. And by letting go of things, she ended up having a better life, ultimately. Again, you can’t control if you get gestational diabetes.

[00:02:39.090] – Hilary Erickson

Of course, there are things and lifestyle changes that you can make that would decrease your risk of getting it, but you ultimately can’t control it. There are plenty of people who have no risk factors for diabetes who end up having diabetes.

[00:02:52.060] – Hilary Erickson

Side note, I see people all the time on social media saying, Well, they’re testing me for diabetes, and I clearly don’t have it. There is no way to tell if you have it. That’s how annoying it is. So it’s not something that you have control over.

[00:03:04.980] – Hilary Erickson

And you can’t control when your provider is going to deliver you. A lot of people want to ask their provider to deliver them in 39 weeks, or their provider says, We can’t deliver you until 41 weeks.

[00:03:15.460] – Hilary Erickson

You can’t control your provider at all, right? You can ask. I think asking is a great plan, but there’s nothing you can do to control. And honestly, I went 12 days overdue with my last baby, and I felt some guilt or shame with going that far over, which again makes absolutely no sense. I just felt like I should be able to do it. I was a labor nurse. I felt guilt over the fact that I couldn’t control this, when in reality, I had no control over it at all.

[00:03:47.000] – Hilary Erickson

I don’t know if this rings true for you guys or if you’re thinking, Okay, there’s areas in my life where I’m experiencing this as well, but I just wanted to give you guys some examples.

[00:03:57.110] – Hilary Erickson

We create birth plans sometimes to ourselves a false sense of like, that’s what’s going to happen at birth. And I think that that is actually the worst way to create a birth plan. Now, I love birth plans, guys. Huge fan of birth plans, huge fan of the fact that you’ve even thought at all about what you want your birth to look That just like, I’m just giving you all the high fives at this point. Extra points if you use stickers and different colored pens, because that is my favorite. But when you are creating your birth plan to control, I’m using air quotes, control your birth, that ultimately is not a birth plan that is going to serve you because you don’t have any control over this. And I’ve honestly seen the birth plans that go the worst awry with people who are wanting to control their birth. I will not have a C-section. Well, guess what? You don’t have any control over that.

[00:04:45.530] – Hilary Erickson

I will not need Pitosin. Again, you don’t have control over that. And that’s not… A lot of times people come in saying, It’s the labor nurse’s fault. We’re making them do these different things. But I really am like, Okay, we’re not going to have Pitosin. This is awesome. And then suddenly, contractions just entirely go away. And sometimes I feel like that is Mother Nature just being like, Hey, I’m in control, not you. And I personally don’t want to give Mother Nature any more vendetta against me to tell me that she is in control because she is obviously in control in my life.

[00:05:20.440] – Hilary Erickson

So then we have to talk about the things that we can control. The main thing that we can control is our attitude, feelings, actions in response to what’s going on. Right? We can either be mad, like going back to the birth plan, we can be mad that we had to have Pitosin, or we can be like, Okay, well, we just need to have a little Pitosin to add to this, and then we can be excited about our birth. So the only thing that we can control is our feelings, thoughts, emotions, actions towards what’s going on.

[00:05:49.490] – Hilary Erickson

And that’s the good news, right? No matter what’s going on, we can control how we’re feeling about it. I remember talking with my friend Rachel, who was previously on the podcast, about how she needed to have a C-section because her baby was breached.

[00:06:02.220] – Hilary Erickson

And I initially was like, Oh, she’s going to be so upset. And she was like, No, it’s great. I’m so excited that I get to schedule it. I’m so excited that my lady bits aren’t going to stretch out. She had all of these reasons that she was excited she was going to end up having a C-section instead of being scared about it. And I was like, That is the best way to look at it.

[00:06:21.880] – Hilary Erickson

She controlled what she could control. She didn’t try to control what she couldn’t control because baby’s position in your womb is not something that you ultimately have roll over. And honestly, good thing, because I think a lot of people, if you were able to control where baby was in the womb, we might end up hurting our babies because who knows why they’re in a certain position? It could be because of the cord or the placenta or something else.

[00:06:43.320] – Hilary Erickson

So just a reminder, and honestly, just a reminder for all of us, this is a great reminder in parents, I don’t control my kids at all. You aren’t going to be able to control your toddler. You’re not going to be able to control your baby. There’s so many things that we can’t control. We can only control our actions, behaviors, thoughts, feelings towards it, right? And when we make a huge deal out of something, that is our action controls behavior over something. It’s not the thing that’s making us maybe blow it out of proportion. And again, I’m talking to myself just as much as I’m talking to you guys. This is a hard thing for me, too.

[00:07:17.170] – Hilary Erickson

So that’s it. The biggest myth of pregnancy is that you have control over it. And once you learn to let go of that by getting prepared for no matter what type of birth you have, I see some birth classes that are like, just for C-sections, just for epidurals, just for natural birth. And I’m like, you don’t know what birth you’re going to have. Honestly, even if you think you’re going to have a C-section because baby’s breached, you might go in, baby’s flipped, and then you’re going to have a vaginal delivery.

[00:07:41.430] – Hilary Erickson

And I don’t want you freaking out about that either, right? I want you prepared for no matter what type of birth you have, that you’re prepared for it. So that’s one of the best things you can do to help yourself is being prepared for whatever situation happens. And maybe a little bit of therapy. I went to therapy for some of the things I couldn’t control. If you listened to the episode on how I hated flying, that was one of the things I couldn’t control. And going to therapy really helped me out. So if you find that you’re having a hard time with those thoughts, emotions, feelings, go to therapy. Just a couple of sessions. I think I attended eight sessions and felt so much better over a variety of things. I think they can help you out.

[00:08:20.740] – Hilary Erickson

All right. Welcome to Season 6. We are starting off hard. Stay tuned. We have some great episodes coming up. Next week, I’m talking about my weight loss journey. And then the week after that, we are talking about aspirin use in pregnancy. So stay tuned.

[00:08:33.780] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you!

Keywords:

Pulling Curls podcast, pregnancy myths, biggest myth of pregnancy, Hilary Eickson, online prenatal class, gestational diabetes, baby position, birth plans, labor nurse, Pitocin, c section, birth preparation, pregnancy control, parenting advice, prenatal classes, attitude in pregnancy, birth plan creation, controlling pregnancy, birth plan tips, labor contractions, pregnancy stress, prenatal education, maternal health, pregnancy complications, due date control, pregnancy feelings, therapeutic pregnancy support, birth experience, expecting parents, pregnancy journey.

The post The Biggest Myth of Pregnancy appeared first on Pulling Curls.

But, how do I know so much about difficult deliveries? — Hi, I’m Hilary. Many people know me as The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of labor and delivery experience. I’m now one of the top pregnancy educators online and I’m excited to give you some information you may not have had previously.

FYI, This is a sister-post for my post on 5 signs your birth might be hard over on The Pregnancy Nurse.

Not Exercising

I recently wrote a post on birth trauma, and one of the indicators for birth trauma was not exercising.

Now, I haven’t entirely figured that out — but in talking with people I’ve come up with a few theories:

Moves Your Pelvis

We often have jobs that keep us in an office chair all day, and that is not doing our pelvis any favor as we get closer to birth. You want to look for workouts that move your body in a variety of ways (aka, walking — while great — may not be the best one).

Side Lunges, pelvic tilts, squats — these are all things using muscles we don’t often move and will benefit us as we go towards birth.

Keeps You Positive

I think working out changes our mindset. In fact, that’s one of the reasons I do it first thing. I just tend to be more positive and ready to face things in my day. It makes me want to work out (and frankly, that’s rare — I am not a workout fan).

Used to Hard Work

You’re used to pushing yourself physically.

One of the providers I used to work for (get ready for some racism here) used to say that white girls gave birth better than Vietnamese because we take PE in school. Keeping in mind the doctor was also Vietnamese.

While I think that statement is very much flawed, I do think there’s something to being used to pushing yourself physically — and how that relates to how you handle labor.

I will say that many people are traumatized by how much work it takes to push out a baby. Often on social media we’re told that if we just pick the right position pushing will be easy (and it IS for SOME moms). BUT average pushing time is about 2 hours — so you need to be prepared to work once you get fully dilated.

Of course, I also recommend a MENTAL exercise — and get a birth plan set up beforehand. I’ll help you write up one right here:

Doctor Isn’t a Good Fit

Having a provider that isn’t a good fit for you can be problematic.

Communication can be hard — which make all of labor hard as you make choices for yourself.

What you value may not align — they may strongly believe in the medical side of labor, but you believe that nature does it best. Butting heads frequently isn’t always a good sign.

Prenatal Visits Suck — maybe they don’t answer questions or brush problems aside. That makes you worry they’ll do similar things as you’re in labor (this may or may not be true).

Now, I know that insurance is often a burden we bear in these situations — and it can make it hard to find a provider you align with.

This IN NO WAY means you’ll have a horrible birth, but if you know a provider is a downfall of yours, I’d 100% recommend:

• Work to make communication as good as it can be (review your birth plan early and often)
• Remember you catch more flies (and kindness) with honey than vinegar — kindness counts, even if your provider is a jerkface.
• Work on the other options in this post — getting prepared, exercising, and feeling confident can carry you a LONG way!

Want more posts on working with providers — check these out:

• Tips To Saying No To Your Provider
• 6 Things Your Provider Does At Prenatal Appointments That Are Important
• How A Birth Class Changes Pregnancy, Labor, Birth & Life With Baby
• The Best Providers for Your Baby’s Arrival: A Deep Dive with CNM Juli Pyle
• Things Your OB Won’t Tell You That You Need to Know

Pelvic Relaxation

A lot of people know about Kegel’s — working to strengthen those muscles.

But, do you know how to RELAX them?

Often, people have a very tight pelvic floor and haven’t worked on relaxing it.

This is something you can easily do on your own — there’s lots of videos that can help on Youtube — like this one:

Relaxing your pelvic floor helps….

• Baby move into the birth canal easier
• Push more effectively (as you’re not pushing against tightened muscles)

It isn’t hard, I find it relaxing and really helpful. I 100% recommend learning more about this one.

Prepare for YOUR Birth

So many people prepare for the birth that’s in their head be it:

• Unmedicated
• Having an epidural
• Being induced
• Having a C-section
• A vaginal Delivery

But I’m here, after seeing thousands of births to tell you that you just can’t plan on having a specific type of birth. You have to prepare for ALL the types.

Now, that’s not to say that you need to know how to perform a C-section.

It is to say that you need to have a basic idea of what to expect and what choices you might face with each of them.

The Online Prenatal Class for Couples prepares you in 20-minute “birth bites” for the birth you’ll end-up having. In just about 3 hours you’ll be on your way and feeling so much more confident no matter what happens in labor and delivery WITH your partner (a huge bonus.

It’s the perfect class if you:

• Don’t have a lot of time, and want to get it done quickly
• Would prefer it not break the bank (it comes at two price points, both of which will prepare you for all types of birth).
• Are worried about birth in any way — be it just general fear or even bringing in fears from a previous birth.

Use coupon code EASYBIRTH to get 10% off if you start today!

Feeling Afraid

Carrying fear into the labor room is one of the biggest risk factors for birth trauma.

That fear can make labor longer, can be bad for you and baby during pregnancy/birth, and can affect the choices you make in labor.

If your fear comes from a previous birth, get prepared. Maybe do some therapy to work through those feelings. Yes, I recommend a birth class for 2+ babies (my online course is perfect for that).

If your fear just comes from the unknown — get prepared. No shame in also getting some therapy in talking through how the unknown can be scary, and giving you some tools to manage it.

Long-term stress or anxiety has shown to be problematic for both mom and baby during pregnancy — so working to get through it is so smart.

Personally, I had a lot of fear about the unknown and therapy helped me a lot — as a mom, wife and human. I think it could help you too. But, getting prepared where possible is also SUPER smart. So glad you’re here.

I’m not here to freak you out about birth. I’m here to show you that there are some very simple things you can do to get prepared for birth. When you work from your end, and keep things positive I believe so many good things are in store for you!

Did I miss something? Tell me in the comments!

Still wanting a bit more advice — check out my free class — It’s your first step towards being your own birth boss.

The post 5 Warning Signs of a Difficult Delivery appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — it is going to help you make your own choices and understand how they can affect future choices, don’t miss it!

Timestamps:

00:00 Epidural can lead to possible cascade of interventions.
04:45 Choices in childbirth impact future interventions.

Keypoints:

1. Definition of Cascade of Interventions: Hilary starts the episode by explaining the concept of the “cascade of interventions,” which refers to a sequence of medical decisions during labor and delivery that lead to additional interventions.
2. Induction as an Example: Hilary uses the example of induction to illustrate how one decision (inducing labor) can increase the likelihood of subsequent interventions like a cesarean section or the need for an epidural.
3. Natural Labor Comparison: The host contrasts staying at home during early labor versus going to the hospital for an induction, explaining that the former can potentially reduce the need for an epidural.
4. Epidural and its Effects: Hilary discusses the procedures followed after choosing an epidural, such as administering extra fluids and potential adjustments if the baby shows signs of distress.
5. Personal Experience: Hilary shares her personal experience with being induced and her hesitations about interventions, specifically about breaking her water, which she held off on out of fear of a rigid commitment to further interventions.
6. Outcome of Decisions: Ultimately, Hilary acknowledges that refusing certain interventions initially made her labor longer, suggesting that embracing some interventions earlier might have led to a quicker delivery.
7. IV Placement Misconceptions: The episode addresses common misconceptions about the placement of an IV, clarifying that it does not necessarily start a cascade of interventions.
8. Philosophy on Making Choices: Hilary emphasizes that making one choice in labor can open some doors while closing others, akin to a “choose your own adventure” scenario, stressing the importance of making informed decisions at each step.
9. Advice on Managing Fear: Hilary advises against letting fear guide labor decisions, recommending that listeners embrace the necessary interventions as they come rather than worrying excessively about future possibilities.
10. Conclusion and Season Wrap-Up: The episode concludes with Hilary wrapping up season 5 of the podcast, thanking listeners and inviting them back for the next season after a summer break.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.870] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on Episode 235, we are talking about the Cascade of Interventions, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:11.330] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and The Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, The Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:39.690] – Hilary Erickson

This episode is sponsored by the online prenatal class for couples. If you want to know more about how the Cascade of Intervention can work for you in your labor. Come join me. In just three hours. We can get you feeling prepared for your upcoming birth.

[00:00:52.960] – Hilary Erickson

Okay, so you might hear the words Cascade of Intervention mentioned. I feel like mostly by doulas. I don’t hear it It’s mentioned by a lot of people online, but it mostly means that when you make choice A, let’s say you’re doing the choose your own adventure that you loved in elementary school, right? When you make choice A, then you may have chances to do B or C, or you don’t have a chance to do X, Y, C, right? So let’s give an example.

[00:01:17.360] – Hilary Erickson

Let’s say you go in for an induction. You have immediately increased your chance of a C-section because inductions are higher risk. That doesn’t mean that you will have a C-section, but it does mean that you have an increased chance of an induction. It also means that you need an IV. It also means that you have a higher likelihood. Again, doesn’t mean you’re going to have to, but you have a higher likelihood of wanting an epidural.

[00:01:39.510] – Hilary Erickson

So as you can imagine, once you make the choice to have that induction, you then are more likely to have other choices come for you further down the line. Versus, let’s say you are in early labor and you decide to stay at home until you really can’t take it anymore, and then you go to the hospital. Well, your chances of needing an epidural are or less, because hopefully you’ve progressed a lot more and you maybe can just make it on your own until you can start to push, which, by the way, pushing feels so much better. So that’s a pro tip for you guys.

[00:02:10.410] – Hilary Erickson

The Cascade of Interventions is something that a lot of people mention because There are things that start to add on. And it is something that your provider should bring up, maybe not using those words, but when you schedule an induction, you are increasing your likelihood of a C-section. You’re more likely to want an epidural, mostly because an induction is super boring. It lasts a little bit longer, and you’re just going to want some rest, usually, I find. Although most people, studies don’t show this, but a lot of people feel like an induction is more painful than natural labor, and everybody varies on that.

[00:02:47.470] – Hilary Erickson

Let’s give another example. If you choose to get an epidural, there are some cascades of interventions that often start. Initially, we give you extra fluid so that your blood pressure doesn’t drop after you have the epidural placed. And then, sometimes the baby doesn’t love it because your blood pressure still drops a little bit. We might come in, we might stop your induction for a little bit. If that’s what’s going on, we might turn you side to side. Once you’ve made the choice to have the epidural, there are some other interventions meaning stuff we do at the hospital that may need to be done to help you compensate.

[00:03:19.290] – Hilary Erickson

And there is always the chance that your blood pressure falls, baby doesn’t look so good, and then we have to have a C-section. It’s super rare, but it is a possible cascade of interventions that started by making the choice to have an epidural.

[00:03:32.920] – Hilary Erickson

Now, I have to tell you guys that I was so worried about the cascade of interventions when I went in to have my last induction that I would not let them bring my water because I knew that once I broke my water, there was no going back.

[00:03:46.900] – Hilary Erickson

I couldn’t go home. My only option was a C-section if I didn’t progress. And I had been 5 centimeters for a really long time. But I was just sitting there saying, No, no, no, because I was afraid of this cascade of interventions. And that didn’t do me any favors. Me living in fear of the cascade of interventions mostly just made labor longer. Honestly, I think I probably could have done it without an epidural because I just sat there being like, No, I’m not going to let them break my water. And then I started to get tired and I wanted to nap. It was just hurting longer and longer. Whereas once they broke my water within an hour or two, she was bored, boom. I think it would have happened if I just let them break my water a little bit earlier.

[00:04:27.450] – Hilary Erickson

Now, something I see online that people are like, Oh, that’s going to start the cascade of interventions is getting an IV. Just because we place an IV doesn’t mean that we’re for sure going to use Pitocin on it, or you’re for sure going to want IV pain meds, or what got an epidural.

[00:04:43.370] – Hilary Erickson

Placing an IV is a safety measure. I would not call it the beginning of the cascade of interventions. Now, if you want an epidural, you need an IV, so it is part of that cascade of interventions, I guess you could say. But I see so often people saying, Oh, everyone refuses the IV because they don’t providers to induce them with Pitocin. Then you refuse the Pitocin. It’s not part of a cascade of interventions.

[00:05:07.610] – Hilary Erickson

I just think that most of this is really important that you understand that once you make one choice, just like in the Choose Your Own Eventure book in fourth grade, you are limiting or enhancing your future choices. But everything in life is like that. You made the choice to get pregnant, and so now you have the choice on how you’re going to give birth and all those different kinds of things. Life is a Cascade of Interventions. We all understand that when you make one choice, you’re closing some doors and you’re opening others. And this is just how it works in labor and delivery. So don’t be scared of it. Don’t be like Hilary saying, No, no, no. Sometimes you can just embrace the Cascade of Interventions.

[00:05:45.950] – Hilary Erickson

Do what works for you at that point in time. Don’t be scared about what’s going to come down the line and make the best choices for you right then.

[00:05:53.560] – Hilary Erickson

Now, this is the final episode of Season 5. We will see you guys in the fall in Season 6, and I hope you guys have a wonderful summer. We’ll see you then.

[00:06:03.060] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls Podcast today. If you liked today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

cascade of interventions, labor and delivery, epidural, c-section, induction, prenatal class, doula, pregnancy, childbirth, interventions in labor, IV fluids, Pitocin, blood pressure, delivery options, hospital birth, natural labor, labor choices, pain management in labor, maternal health, childbirth education, birthing process, labor induction risks, medical interventions during labor, pushing during labor, birthing experience, delivery complications, anesthesia in labor, pregnancy and parenting, choose your own adventure, labor progression.

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