And this is seeing thousands of couples come through my delivery rooms, talking to millions of you online and also having 3 babies of my own (and a marriage that is headed to it’s 30 year mark). I think these are simple things that they can do that show they care and that can go a long way to make you happier.

Go to Appointments (or chat about them)

Prenatal appointments can be a huge chore. They can also feel useless as you trudge into the office only to find out that “everything is fine” and go on your way (honestly, best-case scenario — but I get that can feel like a waste of time).

Having a buddy come along can make it all a little more tolerable (think: lunch or dinner afterwards?). Plus they can sometimes see the magic of a prenatal appointment that you just can’t.

You’re growing that human inside of you, but they only get to see the after effects and that is on full presentation at those prenatal check ups.

Now, I know not every family can swing schedules where you can both go. So, chatting about them afterwards, about how you felt at it and what you learned — and maybe even some time to vent about what a waste of time they feel like can be a win.

Another one might be going to the glucose test with you. It’s honestly just a miserable affair… a long, boring, often yucky-feeling time. Having a chauffer and buddy at it would feel awfully nice.

Note: Coming to appointments is a great start — but understanding what’s ahead makes an even bigger difference. Preparing together helps both of you feel more confident, less anxious, and ready for what’s coming.

I should also say that my husband maybe came to one or two appointments with me in all the 3 kids. He was a teacher, and we needed to save sick days. It just wasn’t possible, but he was interested, and he did meet my doctor early on at an appointment. That’s why I gave a few ideas, because I know these won’t work for everyone!

Remind You How Amazing You Are

You are literally growing another human being inside of you!

Honestly, when you step back you realize that it is TRULY amazing.

But when you’re the one doing it a lot of times you just see how they’re starting to take over your body as their own. You sometimes need a different perspective that they can give!

I feel like pregnancy can feel lonely — where this job is one you’re basically doing alone. Having them fan-boy’ing over all the work you’re doing can be helpful. They shouldn’t be shy with compliments!

Looking for more ideas for partners? — be sure to check out these posts:

• How to Be a Supportive Husband and Partner During Pregnancy
• What To Do About A Selfish Husband During Pregnancy?
• What to Do If Your Girlfriend is Pregnant
• Dealing with an Unsupportive Husband During Pregnancy: Insensitive partners
• My Boyfriend Says I Feel Different Inside During Pregnancy

Get Prepared With You

Preparing for birth isn’t something you have to figure out alone — and it makes a big difference when you don’t.

This isn’t to say that if your partner isn’t interested in birth prep that they’re not a good one. You may need to let them know that’s what you want. I mean, most often our bodies are our own business but in labor it’s different. You’re bringing this baby home together!

Many couples go into labor feeling unsure of what to expect, which can lead to anxiety, confusion, and second-guessing in the moment. But when you take the time to prepare together, you both start to understand how labor typically unfolds, what your options are, and how to handle the moments that might otherwise catch you off guard.

That shared understanding helps you feel more confident, less overwhelmed, and better able to make informed decisions as things happen.

Being mindful to pick a class that includes them is smart. Many classes leave partners in the dust and only talk to “mamma” — and I just disagree with that fundamentally.

It also changes how you support each other. Most partners want to help, but don’t always know what to do — and that uncertainty can add stress for both of you.

When you’ve learned together ahead of time, you’re on the same page, speaking the same language, and working as a team instead of trying to figure it out in real time. That’s what helps labor feel calmer, more connected, and more manageable.

Real preparation isn’t about knowing everything — it’s about feeling ready, informed, and supported no matter how your birth unfolds.

If you want to feel more prepared, less anxious, and truly confident going into labor, the best thing you can do is learn together. Inside The Online Prenatal Class for Couples, you’ll both understand what to expect, your options, and how to support each other — so you’re not figuring it out in the moment.

Fill Your Water Bottle

This is a little one, but water can make a huge difference in how you feel during pregnancy.

That one habit of filling it every morning can put you on a path to drinking it.

Honestly, if I don’t fill my water cup, I think my intake is about half of what it would be if I did. Which is sad, but true.

Small, simple gestures like this can go a long way. Plus, when they get in a habit like this it can also help your breastfeeding journey. It’s just a simple thing that can truly help.

Looking for more about hydration in pregnancy? — be sure to check out these posts:

• Can Women Drink Gatorade During Pregnancy? Can it prevent dehydration safely?
• Dehydration During Pregnancy: The importance of hydration while growing a human.
• When Should I Start Drinking Raspberry Leaf Tea?
• Drinks for Pregnant Women: What are the best drinks during pregnancy?
• Can You Drink Wine When You’re Pregnant: The studies for pregnant women

Prepare for AFTER Baby is Born

Note: I didn’t say prepare for baby — I’m talking about preparing for postpartum. A good partner will remember that you’re going to need some TLC along with managing a new baby — so they’ll work to prepare a good place to come home to.

Yes, that includes building the crib, but also things like making sure your bathroom is clean, that your pads are easy to grab.

BTW, there’s a few things you’ll want to have on hand — I have a postpartum checklist to help with that:

And, one of my favorites — installing a Bidet (that post is about the Tushy but there’s lots of brands out there anymore — it will give you an idea of how it can help)!

I loved my cold peri bottle after every baby… a bidet would have been SO nice! They’re not very expensive, can be grabbed at your local home improvement store, and are pretty easy to install!

This isn’t to say that they shouldn’t help you in getting all the things you need for baby — I have a no-fluff checklist here:

BUT there’s more to prepare for just baby.

You really will need some TLC when you get home, and it’s easy to think you’re young and you’ll bounce back fast, but often you don’t — so them being aware they’re on “taking care of you” duty too is smart.

Supporting mom after birth is just as important as caring for baby — and knowing what to expect makes all the difference. Inside The Online Prenatal Class for Couples, you’ll both learn how to feel prepared, confident, and ready for those early postpartum days (something, SO many people do — including me before I was The Pregnancy Nurse®).

What did I miss? What is YOUR partner doing to help you have a happier pregnancy? Tell me in the comments!

The post How Your Partner Can Support a Happier Pregnancy appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Before we get started — why take this from me? Hello, I’m Hilary, the curly head here at Pulling Curls®. I’m also the curly head behind the website The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of labor and delivery experience.

During that time, I’ve seen thousands of moms labor, in many different ways, but I’ve seen what preparation actually prepared them to get a positive birth experience. I’ve also had 3 kids of my own, and know how your hopes and dreams can be really different than what the hospital offers.

I’m super glad you’re here, because this is a really important topic.

What is “Natural” Hospital Birth

This is tricky because we’re clearly not going to be giving birth in a wooded forrest floor, and not even in our own home in our own bed.

If you’re here, you’re likely planning on a hospital birth — which unfortunately doesn’t always look particularly “natural”. That makes me sad. I do know that the hospital hurts a few of our natural insticts, which I don’t love.

Personally, I do believe that it is the safest way to give birth, but I do believe that there are ways to get it to look more like what you’re hoping for.

However, in my 20 years of experience, it’s much beyond breathing and not getting an epidural. There’s more to it — so lets talk about.

Why a Natural Birth?

Honestly, this is up to you. Hopefully you’ve considered a birth plan (grab my free series here):

And in that, you’ve decided what “natural” means to you. Most often I hear it meaning:

• No induction – you go into labor on your own.
• No epidural – you rely on other methods
• No medical pain management – only natural methods

But honestly, everyone has their own ideas about what a “natural” birth will look like. Some mean delivering in a tub, or with zero interference from the hospital staff. There’s a whole spectrum of “natural” (which is why it’s important to use a birth plan to share what you want for your birth!).

Whatever type of birth you’re hoping for, doing a birth plan and discussing it with your doctor or midwife ASAP is smart. Some of the things (for instance, a tub birth) can’t be accommodated by all facilities. So, that’s good to know (and possibly change expectations or facilities).

I once saw a birth educator say you could “tell” your hospital you are bringing in a portable tub but I’m here to say that might not be the case. The hospital may not be able to take the load of the extra water on their floors, not to mention the risk of flooding. Be really mindful about who you’re listening to and if their recommendations are truly realistic. A LOT of people online give unrealistic expectations to get attention (and followers) on social media, but that’s not helping you out long-term.

So, my question for you — why do you want a natural birth, what does it mean to you? What are you hoping for? Tell us down in the comments! I think we could have a good conversation there!

Best Class for a Natural Birth

I agree that preparation is the key to a “natural” hospital birth — no matter what that means to you.

I also agree that the hospital doesn’t do a lot of “natural” things. I mean, that’s one of the best things about it. Natural doesn’t always mean safest. That’s probably why you have chosen a hospital birth team.

Cliff Notes: I recommend this class << I think it’s the best to truly prepare you.

So, what should a birth class include to help you have a natural hospital birth? Let’s talk about it….

Practice Natural Pain Management Techniques

It’s true, you want to learn some natural pain management techniques. It should include:

• Breathing — it is a powerful tool to help your body relax to help your baby descend into your birth canal
• Positioning — movement is a very powerful tool in birth (no matter “how” you hope to birth — even if you have an epidural)
• Other pain management techniques including heat, massage, etc

I really do think these are important, but I think a lot of people have boiled birth class down to just this.

Honestly, I think providers loved that this was the only way people prepared to have their baby. It made their job of “telling” you what to do about the rest of the birth easy on them.

Pain management is important, but is just one of the keys to getting a natural hospital birth (and honestly, probably the easiest one to teach).

Basic Physiology of Birth

I do see a lot of “natural” classes who focus a lot on this. But honestly, what you need to know can be taught very quickly.

I actually share one of the best tips about this in this post on birth stages:

While this can help to know what to expect, you should also be surrounded by experts who can tell you where you are on this path. And, the bad news is that our bodies don’t always listen to the “physiology” or go according to plan.

And then we have to….

Learn about Possible Hospital Interventions

This is where a lot of “natural” birth classes simply tell you to say no to these, “unless it’s an emergency.”

But, I think that you and I can go both agree that we’d prefer not to let things get to an emergency before we’re dealing with them.

If you see a leak in your shower, are you going to wait until it looks like it’s going to collapse into the floor beneath it at your house before you even call a plumber? Probably not….

Same goes for the hospital.

It’s important to learn about what the hospital might offer, what it looks like and how it can be used to help your birth be safer (because yes, these things do truly make things safer).

Things like:

• Breaking your bag of waters
• Using the IV
• An epidural to help labor progress (shocking that a “natural” class should also share how an epidural can help — but it’s true!)
• Inductions (there are SO many inductions lately, and it’s not just because people are “lazy” — I’ll have more of that in the next section)
• Cesarean birth (yup, you should know something about that too).

I think a lot of birth classes tend to take the idea that if you don’t think about it, it won’t happen.

And that head in the sand approach, my friend, causes birth trauma. It doesn’t lead to better birth outcomes. In fact, taking classes that inform you of these less aesthetically pleasing parts of birth really do improve outcomes. I talk about the studies in here.

Don’t get me started on classes that say “get your perfect birth” because no one can sell you that, but it sure gets clicks on Facebook ads. It’s a real red flag for me.

Honestly, I think they ignore a lot of this because most birth classes are taught by people who don’t know much about these things. They took have their head in the sand about it, so they don’t teach it.

Which is why I recommend a birth class taught by a labor nurse. I recommend this one.

At the VERY least they should be very clear to you that these interventions are sometimes very necessary and how to make choices about them…. and we’re going to get more to that. Stay tuned.

I was just thinking about cesarean rates and I gotta say that even my favorite providers who are very patient and allow patients to make their best choice still have a cesarean rate of 15-20%. That’s still 1/5 — something to think about.

Learn About 3rd Trimester Testing

Honestly, I think this is where a lot of birth goes off the rails for people.

Example:

At 37 weeks, baby is measuring small. You do an ultrasound to find out that baby isn’t getting what they need from the umbilical cord, and they recommend you be induced.

You had no plans for induction, you don’t want one but you slowly realize that mother nature hasn’t made this pregnancy perfection, and this may help baby have a better outcome if you’re induced.

I see this happen a million different ways:

• Preeclampisa
• High blood pressure
• Cholestasis
• Baby too big or too small
• Too much or too little amniotic fluid

I actually talk about these very real-life scenarios a bit in my insider tips class:

This is why prenatal appointments are so important. However, when your provider sees something off at those appointments they tend to send you for testing. Most often:

• Preeclampsia labs
• NST (non-stress test)
• BPP (biophysical profile)

And people go into those tests blind, and aren’t sure what will happen or what the results will mean.

And, when the recommendation to induce early comes back, they’re just not sure what to do because they never had this on their radar the whole time.

You may feel like this scenario is rare, but it happens in a good percentage of births anymore. People are older, more stressed out and have pre-existing conditions they didn’t have before. I’d guess in many hospitals the majority of patients giving birth lived-out a similar scenario.

Honestly, I feel so fierce about this part I have a free class that goes over it. I don’t talk about it much but you can join right here. It goes over testing, and anything else that should send you into the hospital in the 3rd trimester.

Most birth classes don’t really start til’ you’re in labor, but that puts you behind before you’ve even started. Good birth class teachers know this. I go over more about what you need to know in this post.

Learn How to Make Choices

And here is where we get to the meat of this issue.

Birth isn’t perfect. Our bodies aren’t always “made” to do this and we often have to pivot and adjust our plans to keep things as safe as possible.

A lot of times we don’t. And that’s awesome, but there’s a decent chance you will have to adjust some parts of your birth hopes to account for safety.

Honestly, that’s part of why hospital births are safer (and frankly, why a lot of home birth midwives send a lot of their patients into the hospital).

You have to learn to:

1. Take the information your provider gives you
2. Understand the option they’re recommending (and ask questions)
3. Make the best choice for you given the information.

For too long providers “told” you that you’re getting induced, but I’m here to remind you that every choice is yours, there is a lot of grey area in pregnancy & birth, and that you can both combine what you want with what your provider is telling you.

I actually have a whole induction checklist to help you get a full picture of what you expect if your provider is recommending that (I wish they were better about doing it, but smart peeps grab this):

A good birth class will help you know options, and how to make those choices.

It’s not going to put their head in the sand that these things “rarely” happen, because they frankly (especially in 2026) do not. These are happening frequently, and often for very good reasons.

I have a video on making choices (and I do think it’s the #1 skill you need):

Appropriate Expectations

Finally a good birth class should give you appropriate expectations for hospital birth.

I agree that you don’t have to follow “policy” — but like I mentioned above, telling someone they can bring their own birth tub to any hospital just isn’t helpful to most people (or, frankly safe for all the other patients in the hospital).

I think this is especially true postpartum (a big part of why I recommend this one).

Personally, I wasn’t prepared at all for postpartum and it made it all pretty miserable. I don’t want that for you. My birth class just acted like baby would come out and everything would come easy after that, and that’s just not true:

So, as you can see a good “natural” birth class includes a lot of things many people don’t talk about.

Anything you learned in this article you hadn’t thought of? Tell me in the comments.

And finally, I am glad you’re even considering a class. Far too many people don’t.. Good preparation makes for good births — and I think you’re on the road to that!

A few notes on a birth class:

• Because most providers are using advertising to sell their birth class the pricing tends to be far too high (advertising adds about $100 to any birth class) — which is why I recommend this one (word of mouth is plenty for that one)
• Be sure to check the credentials of your teacher. It’s important they have helped at a LOT of births.
• Check out if they have any free options where you can see them teach (including Youtube videos) to see if you’re a good fit. Not every teacher is for every student.

Check out this one (you can find some freebies here too) and see if it’s right for you!

Want more information on birth classes check out these posts:

• Why Most Birth Classes Fall Short: Preparing for the Unexpected in Labor
• 14 Best Online Childbirth Classes for Couples
• Free Birth Class with Insurance
• When to Take a Childbirth or Breastfeeding Class?
• Pregnancy & Baby Preparation Classes I Recommend

The post Best Birth Class for a Natural Hospital Birth appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — if you’re looking to get prepared with your partner, it’s your best option!

Today’s guest is Dani Morin child safety advocate and CPST on TikTok. Helping parents make informed parenting decisions and providing product research to help moms make the perfect baby registry.

Find her on: Tiktok (@danimorin13) or Instagram (@danimorin_)

Links for you:

Baby Proofing 101: Dani Morin’s Mission for Baby Safety Awareness (her previous episode)

Timestamps:

00:00 “Life-Altering Realization of Parenthood”

05:58 Overcoming Grief and Rediscovery

15:20 “Embracing Parenthood Despite Loss”

20:26 Navigating Fertility Challenges Alone

23:06 “Sperm Donation Normality Perception”

29:51 IVF Expenses and Fertility Misconceptions

33:07 Vanishing Twin Syndrome Explained

40:15 Struggles Changing High-Risk Doctor

43:24 Alone for Life-Changing Ultrasound

50:10 Plane Safety and Medical Workaround

56:11 Birth Center Inequality

01:01:18 Three Key Takeaways from Episode

Keypoints:

• Dani Morin shares her experiences with three very different paths to pregnancy, from an unplanned pregnancy in her 20s to home insemination as a single mom, and eventually a natural conception after getting married.
• The episode highlights the emotional aftermath of Dani’s first pregnancy, including the life-changing impact of her son’s tragic loss and her journey through grief, sobriety, and rediscovering her sense of purpose as a mother.
• Dani describes how early parenting trends and online information influenced her choices—she candidly discusses how she embraced “all-natural” parenting, even using products later shown to be unsafe, and how she has since shifted to an evidence-based approach.
• Hilary and Dani emphasize that unplanned pregnancies are far more common than most people believe, and that being surprised by pregnancy doesn’t make anyone less of a mom.
• Dani details her experience with home insemination using donor sperm as a cost-effective and empowering option for single women or couples with fertility challenges, demystifying and normalizing this choice.
• The conversation explores the stigma, criticism, and unsolicited advice Dani encountered online and in real life regarding her non-traditional paths to motherhood.
• Dani shares practical tips for others considering home insemination, including financial readiness, emotional support, and building a “village” before taking that step.
• The difficulties of navigating healthcare, especially when you’re high risk or dissatisfied with your provider, are explored—Dani discusses real challenges in switching OBs, accessing support, and advocating for yourself during pregnancy.
• Dani and Hilary discuss the limitations—and some dangerous pitfalls—of using AI and online sources for pregnancy advice, and stress the value of trustworthy, evidence-based resources.
• Throughout the episode, the importance of compassion from healthcare providers, honest conversations, and finding the right support network for your unique pregnancy and parenting journey shines through.

Producer: Drew Erickson

names removed 262 Dani Morin — getting pregnant

[00:00:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls podcast. Today, on this episode, we are talking about three different things. So the first one is gonna be different ways to get pregnant and how that affects your pregnancy. Stay tuned. This is gonna be a good one. Also, managing your provider when you don’t really like them, and it’s gonna be real difficult to switch. And then finally, is AI okay to ask pregnancy questions to? So let’s untangle it.

[00:00:21] Hi, I’m Hilary, a Serial over Complicator. I’m also a nurse mom to three and the curly head behind pulling curls and the pregnancy nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with pregnancy and parenting untangled the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:00:51] This episode of the Pulling Curls podcast is sponsored by the online prenatal class for couples. If you are looking to get prepared for your upcoming birth, please join me. It truly is the easy way to get prepared.

[00:01:01] Today’s guest is a child safety advocate and CPST on TikTok. She loves to provide informed research on product safety for parents who are getting their registry together. I wanna introduce today’s guest, Dani Morin.

[00:01:13] Hey Dani. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:01:16] Dani Morin: I’m so excited to be back. I feel like this time you and I have gotten to know each other so well that it’s just really friends talking to friends. So things may just may get intimate here because we are talking about conception in every different way that you could think.

[00:01:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: not every, I mean you didn’t, so she never did IVF, like full on IVF, right?

[00:01:41] Dani Morin: I never did IVF people get that so confused, which we’ll get into

[00:01:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Okay, so Dani has been pregnant three times in all three very different ways. So most off, I want people to understand that there are different options for people to get pregnant. And your second option, I think is a viable one that a lot of people don’t even consider because they just think it’s too out there. Right? Like, I told your story to my mom and she was like aghast at it. And I was like, why? What is the difference between her going into the office and having it done and doing it at home? But anyway, the just like, a spoiler for everybody. Okay, pregnancy number one, got pregnant.

[00:02:20] Dani Morin: So pregnancy number 1, 24 years old, I was working at a wine company. I was, you know, living the lavish lifestyle of a 24-year-old, kind of like an Alex Earl, right? I was on yachts, I was living in Newport Beach very much up into the party scene. And it was one of those situations where I fell pregnant, having some fun, having fun.

[00:02:45] So the great thing about that pregnancy though is I never, thought I wanted to be a mom and I found out I was pregnant. I was like well into my second trimester, by the way. And I knew, because, you know, I was a big partier, but I could not put down even a glass of wine. I was like vomiting. I’m like, what is going on?

[00:03:05] So I had gone like a month or so without like even having like a sip of alcohol. It was making me so sick. I should have known right then. But I had had a doctor, and so this is for all the girls listening. I had a doctor tell me like, well you have PCOS and a tilted Ute. Not maybe is it a tilted uterus or a tilted?

[00:03:26] A tilted something. So, you know, ’cause.

[00:03:28] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: cervix.

[00:03:29] Dani Morin: A tilted cervix, it was a tilted something. And so I was probably gonna have a tough time ever conceiving. I probably wouldn’t. And I’m like, oh fine by me because you know I’m gonna live in a high rise someday and just be like single and successful. Like that’s just the vibe that I was like putting out 24-year-old me.

[00:03:45] And it’s so crazy because the second I found out I was pregnant with that baby, you know, I go in and like I knew the gender that day. I go in and I know the gender and everything that day. And I had had this like crazy emotion come over me. I cannot even explain it. I have not had this with my other pregnancies, but this crazy emotional connection to this child. And again, we’ve gone into loss and stuff, so I think my other pregnancies, I haven’t had this immediate connection because of my fear of loss. But I had this emotional, crazy connection of just wanting to do everything to make sure that this baby was safe and taken care of.

[00:04:30] And, in the womb and just like the best baby products and all this stuff. And like, I became like, mom 5,000 overnight. Like it was, it was this crazy thing. And I realized at that point I was like, my purpose on this earth is to be a mom. And 10 days prior it was completely opposite. Like, oh, I’m totally fine never having kids. So sometimes things happen that give you a different perspective on life and getting pregnant with my son, Deacon, was just that. Like what I thought my purpose was, was completely different than when I found out I was pregnant. And I’m like, this is my sole purpose and I will do everything to be like the best mom I can.

[00:05:13] Now we’re not gonna dive too much into the grief, but when he was 18 months old, he was strangled by a Baltic amber teething necklace at a negligent daycare. That’s a whole thing. If you guys go on my social media, you could dive more into that. So I lost him around almost 19 months old. And that ruined me, completely shattered me, ruined me. Again, I had just found my purpose and that was like in motherhood and being this boy’s mom. And I was a single mom and I thought I was doing so well with that. And this tragic thing happened and it ruined me. To the point where I, you know, was making really bad choices. I did not know how to grieve. I was medicating with alcohol and other things.

[00:06:01] And I just was like, hoping not to wake up. Like I just, that was just not something I wanted to do anymore, was like live on this earth without being a mother and being that boy’s mom. I did end up getting help for that a couple years into my grief. I just was like, if I’m gonna keep waking up, I don’t want to keep waking up like this.

[00:06:24] Like, there’s has to be more to life than, than this grief and like this pain. And I got my life back together and I just kind of saw things skyrocket. Some of which was sharing my story and opening up about my truth and my story on social media. Believe it or not, I think it was a huge part.

[00:06:42] I mean that and the rehab. But, I think it was a huge part to kind of just living my truth and these are the things that happened and this is how I got pregnant. This is how he passed away. This is the guilt that I’m dealing with. These are the struggles that I have. And now I’m sober going through all of this again.

[00:07:05] But like just in a few years, I literally saw my life skyrocket and it has not stopped. So, I guess now’s the point. We could get into the very controversial subject of my next birth. And you can stop and ask all the questions because I want people to understand that when I am telling you about how I got pregnant with my second child. Who’s now almost five, by the way. All I knew.

[00:07:33] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: really quick. I wanna stop

[00:07:34] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:07:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I was thinking it was

[00:07:36] Dani Morin: Okay.

[00:07:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: too, how you were talking about how you like turned into mama bear and you wanted to do like everything natural with your first one, right? It turned on

[00:07:46] Dani Morin: Yes,

[00:07:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: natural cloth diapering all feet on the ground, like in

[00:07:51] Dani Morin: yes. Okay. I’m so glad that you brought that up because there was, and I had gotten vulnerable with you on this topic at that table actually. And that’s just the gems of Mom 2.0. You just start, you know, word vomiting, your vulnerability. But so when I found out I was pregnant, I thought like, all these people are gonna look down on me for how I became pregnant, right?

[00:08:17] And so I’m gonna prove everyone wrong and I’m gonna be the top mama dog out there. Like, I’m gonna have the best rated car seat at the time. I’m gonna, you know, and then in 2015, it was very much the all natural mama, right? So you breastfeed until your kid goes to kindergarten and like you do not put a regular diaper on your kid.

[00:08:41] You cloth diaper. You do not use regular wipes. You make your own wipes, which is like grape seed oil. And at the time, lavender, which we know is like, you never put lavender on like a boy’s genitals. Like I don’t, it was just the crazy thing, the teething, the baltic amber teething necklaces, which were part of the, how he died. Those were like your badge of honor. Like if you were taking your kid out to Target and he had on a baltic amber teething necklace, like those mamas knew you were all natural mama. And it was just this, you know, this whole thing of, everything’s natural. And I really fell into that and I held a lot of guilt about the baltic amber teething necklace for the longest.

[00:09:23] I still do, to be honest. But I have come to terms with the fact that I was doing the best that I could with the information put in front of me and the information that I was consuming. So at the time, and you are an OG blogger, so you know this, but like at the time in 2014- 15, so I was like pregnant in 2014, 2014, 15, 16.

[00:09:49] The blogger life was like a real big thing. We didn’t have really Instagram or we had Facebook, but we didn’t really have all these things going on that we do now. We didn’t have pediatricians making videos. We didn’t have the experts out there like yourself, like making videos and stuff like that. I didn’t even know what the AAP was like. Don’t even ask me what those acronyms stand for. And so we had these mama bloggers and so when we would Google, you know, all natural remedies or safety or whatever, this is what was popping up on our Googles right, was these mom blogs, which are not reputable at all. I could Google right now, like, “can I do meth while pregnant?” And I’ll find something that supports that. Like, it’s out there. Like people anywhere could write anything that they want online. And so I fell into these like all natural trends. And I was not, not that I wasn’t open to the evidence based. It just was not what was being populated in front of me at the time.

[00:10:51] Now I think people definitely know that they can find the evidence or they can find the topics that, that are gonna support their narrative or how they wanna parent and they’re gonna choose the latter. So it’s a little bit different now and we are seeing kind of a similar thing happening in 2025 with the all natural, the anti-vax, anti evidence, anti pediatrician, anti doctor.

[00:11:21] We’re seeing that again now in 2025. But it was pretty heavy in like 2015. And I definitely fell into that trap. And it took me a while to climb out of this crunchy, crunchy, holistic, homeopathic life. It took me even, I was still lingering a little bit when I had my second child. I’m like, come on, you know better.

[00:11:46] Like, you know better. Like, that sounds good, but that is not safe. So, yeah. So I was sucked into that. But, I have come to, I guess, realization and I guess a little bit of peace. I’ll say I’ve come to a little bit of peace with the fact that there wasn’t anything out there saying that the baltic amber teeth necklaces were bad.

[00:12:07] Now it’s all you’re gonna find. But at the time, thousands of kids were wearing ’em. This was the information put in front of me that instead of giving your kids Tylenol, this is going to help. We know it’s a hoax now and it’s a whole thing, but, i, I do feel that even at that time.

[00:12:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: at uh, mom two.

[00:12:24] Dani Morin: I know. And, I do feel like, and we could get into that too. But I do feel like at, at this point, I was the best mom that I could be for that baby with the information that I had.

[00:12:37] And so I’ve actually changed my tone online to how I talk to parents when I see moms using things, and then I’m like, Hey, just so you know, like those aren’t recommended. Here’s some evidence to prove it. And then they’re on the defense and I’m like, you know what? They’re on the defense because they’re doing the best with the information that they got. And that’s an ad for a teething necklace, you know?

[00:12:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:13:00] Dani Morin: Or whatever it might be that’s, a mommy blog about, you know, bed sharing or whatever. So it’s whatever they find. It’s just that like they’re, so, my tone has changed a little bit. But yeah, with the teething necklace at Mom 2.0, I had a ton of people coming up to me saying, you should go tell that mom your story because her baby’s wearing a teeth necklace.

[00:13:21] And I’m like, you should go tell that mom my story and just point to me and say that mom doesn’t have a son anymore because of that necklace and you’re wearing it. I was like, there’s a time and place and I’ll never go up to a mom like at a Starbucks in front of a bunch of people and be like, like in line in front of people, and being like, oh, that necklace is what killed my kid.

[00:13:40] I would never do that. I used to. Now I’ll wait and see like, Hey, can I get that mom alone privately and say something. Mom 2.0 and there’s thousands of moms there and everybody’s feeling judged. Sorry, I have a little acid reflex from the pregnancy.

[00:13:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Shocking.

[00:13:56] Dani Morin: so bad. .

[00:13:58] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So many people have unplanned pregnancies and I think they all feel like no one else has an unplanned pregnancy. But as a nurse, when you’re going through prenatals, ’cause your doctor asked you at your first appointment, was this planned, unexpected, unwanted. So many people say unplanned and so I never want people to think just because they weren’t planning on this, that somehow they’re a worse mom. And, just in case people are listening who are like, yeah, that’s me, like I’m pregnant and wasn’t expecting it, you’re still an amazing mom. That doesn’t, that doesn’t mean anything about you going forward. Hopefully, I wish somebody had told Dani of 2015 that.

[00:14:33] Dani Morin: You know what’s so funny is, is how I look back at it, is that people were very upset with how I got pregnant, right? But when that baby was here, like that all seemed to go away. And I remember at his funeral, like seeing people show up there and like I was able to pull comments that they left on my pregnancy announcement.

[00:14:54] And I’m like, oh, it’s funny that like you cared about him now that he is alive and now dead. But like when I was pregnant, I was this, this, this, and these names that you left in the comments. But like my whole thing is that, once the babies are here, it does not matter how they came to be.

[00:15:10] Like they are so loved on and, it does not matter. And people have unplanned pregnancies while married. Like it’s, you know what I mean? Like, they happen all the time. These are things that happen. And for me it was the best thing that happened.

[00:15:24] I actually get asked a lot, and I’ve never done a video on this, but I get asked quite a bit, like in one-on-one conversations. Like if you knew that you were going to have a child that was gonna die at 18 months. Like, would you have, you know, because I, I got pregnant in this weird way. Like, would you have done it again?

[00:15:44] And my answer is always 100,000 times over. Like the lessons learned, the value of becoming a mom, learning my purpose, of having this love that I’ve never, ever, ever known or experienced before is a love like that of a child. To be able to do that again, I would 100% sign up for it. Even though it would come with the grief and the alcohol and the rehab and the recovery and all of these other things, I would still choose to do that again.

[00:16:15] So, and that’s just like my story, but it’s something that gets asked. I sat on it for the first time and I’m like, and it was too close to the death, you know what I mean? But now I could sit back almost 10 years later and I’m like, I would do it 100 million times over.

[00:16:31] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That’s amazing.

[00:16:32] ,

[00:16:32] Then you decided you wanted another one.

[00:16:34] Dani Morin: yeah, so I was a couple years into my sobriety life was going really good.

[00:16:39] I had, at my corporate job gotten rep of the year, a couple years in a row. I was starting to do social media by accident. I was just sharing my story to honestly just help. I have a big thing, like sometimes when you share your truth, you’re helping others, and in turn, I felt like I was doing good in my son’s name and doing the safety advocacy and stuff like that, like.

[00:17:01] I felt like I was making him proud and I was making myself proud and it felt really good. And I just really wanted to be a mom. Now, I had started dating, I was going on numerous dates every single week. It was very weird. I just was, this is just not what I want. And I was like finding myself, like, on these dates, being like, could I settle for this?

[00:17:26] Like, and I’m like, why would you wanna just settle to have. Like, my goal was to be a mom again, and I just don’t know if I was wanting to date and wanting a boyfriend or a husband. And I wasn’t finding like that match. And so I started, I had gone to HRC Fertility. They had a fertility night where they were going over IVF options and, they had this fertility night. So I was like, I’m gonna walk up there. The hospital’s like walking distance to my house. I was like, I’m gonna walk up there and sit in on this and hear about IVF. I really just wanted to know what it would cost to do IVF. So I go in there and it was definitely like a salesy thing.

[00:18:06] Like, this is like a money maker, like I realized. But they went into sperm donors. A lot of people that were there actually were married couples where the guy was sterile. And I had never heard of something like that before. So a lot of people there were trying to figure out. So they had like the sperm donation, I think like California cryo might have been there, like some of the sperm donation.

[00:18:29] There was like, it was a salesy thing, like use our services and stuff. So, I never even knew that that was even a thing. So I did do a consultation with them. I remember the doctor in our meeting, like had, like fallen asleep. Anyways, it was like a weird situation. I was like asking what the steps were gonna be and, I had ordered some sperm from a sperm bank, and I was planning on doing IUI. So I, so there’s IVF, and this is, okay, I’m gonna break this down because this is, everyone’s like, did you choose the gender? I’m like, oh my God, they have no idea what I did. Okay, so IVF is where they take the sperm, they put it into the egg and they insert that into the uterus.

[00:19:15] And you could tell me if I’m using these terms wrong. Okay.

[00:19:18] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: All these

[00:19:18] Dani Morin: IUI. Okay. So IUI is where they kind of take like a catheter and they place the sperm directly as close to the egg as possible. So some men have issues with mobility of sperm to where they got the sperm count, the sperms good and clean and all this stuff.

[00:19:38] But for some reason it’s not swimming as it should to the egg. So IUI sometimes like gives the egg, gives the sperm a better chance to penetrate the egg. So to speak. So they used kind of like a catheter. So that was gonna be the option I did because I’m like, I’ve gotten pregnant before. I don’t think I need IVF.

[00:19:57] Well, we were doing this whole thing and because I had, you know, tilted cervix or tilted uterus and PCOS because I’d been diagnosed with that before I was using that and to get IUI covered by insurance. Well, you cannot get IUI covered by insurance until you’re 35 years old, which I did not know.

[00:20:16] So what I thought was gonna cost me like $2,500 was gonna cost me close to 12,000. And I was like, that’s gonna be a negative. I’m crying in the office and I’m like, my whole plan, you know, I was supposed to start the medications, which are on their own like $2,000. So, this nurse kind of like pulls me aside and she’s like, ” you should go on Facebook and join the lesbian communities and they’ll tell you the ways to have a baby on your own at home.” And I’m like, “psychotic? No.” So I had gotten in the car with my mom and I was like, “yeah, I had this idea of you know, getting pregnant on my own, but it’s not gonna work out.”

[00:21:00] And my mom had kind of said something like in a joking fashion where she was like, “what if though you like found somebody and like, you know, friendly or something and you could like get pregnant that way.” So I was like thinking, I’m like, and she’s like, I mean, don’t do that, but like, she’s like, I know, it’s just, this is like what you want this so bad?

[00:21:25] And I went home and like I slept on it and I’m like. No, but for real, like how are the lesbians, like how are they having babies? Are they all going through IVF-IUI? So I find a lesbian group and they’re like, join this group, which is, home insemination is what it’s called. And shout out to the lesbian community for opening your arms wide open and teaching me the ways of how this works.

[00:21:53] There’s a science to, I mean, they taught me the way. So I was on the home insemination group. I ended up finding single mom by choice group. Now I’ve not been on Facebook since probably five years. But I found, single mom by choice group. I found home insemination group. And the home insemination is where, now some people find like live partners that will produce sperm into a cup and then they inseminate it more like in a live situation. I had ordered sperm already, so I just had that then shipped to my house instead of to the IUI place and or to the fertility clinic. And I did it myself. So there was a whole science behind it. You know, you let it thaw for 20 minutes and then it’s basically like a syringe, so smaller than a tampon and you just put it up there and you wait 30 minutes.

[00:22:46] And I got pregnant on the first try. First vile, first try. But these women walked me through it, exactly what to do. And then I thought it would be a good idea to, after I was like nine months pregnant, to make a video of how I did it. And the internet had some things to say. And it’s so funny because I had been researching how I was gonna do this for about seven months before I pulled the trigger.

[00:23:14] So all I thought in my mind, so I had gone to the fertility clinic where I met, there was all these like couples there where the husbands were sterile. So everything was about sperm donation stuff. So in my mind, I had gotten so wrapped up in this that in my mind the only way people were conceiving these days was sperm donation in my, in my mind.

[00:23:36] Like, so when people were like, “oh my God, this is shocking.” I’m like, is it like, this is pretty normal? Because what I’d been going through and like what I was like presented with and the groups that I was in, like this was the most normal thing. So I had to take a step back and be like, people are shocked about this. You know, and I made it very clear in this video, the first thing I said was, I am reviewing my finances because mind you, I got knocked up with my first child, young, in my twenties. And although at the time I thought I was making a lot of money. Oh, you do not equate for your $1,500 of daycare every month and $500 of groceries, clothes, and diapers, or whatever you need.

[00:24:19] And you are not equating for all this other money of this other human that you have to raise. When I had my son, Deacon, I did have to move home. There was no way I was gonna be able to pay rent and then also put him in daycare and work and pay for all these things. Like, so the first thing I ever did in that video was I was like, you have to look at your finances first and foremost.

[00:24:41] Like the last thing you want is now. I figured it out with my son, Deacon. I moved in with my mom and it was great and I love that she was a huge part of his life and my sister was living at there at the time and she like, I love that it worked out that way, but I want people to know. A lot of people just account for how much it costs to get pregnant. They’re not thinking of childcare, groceries, clothing, school. They’re not thinking of all this other stuff. So I’m like, you need to think about this and make sure if you are going to purposely do this, that you do it with intent and that you are set up to the best of your ability? What? Like financially, emotionally.

[00:25:19] I also talked about, I had a lot of help. Like I had my mom, like I knew I was gonna have a village of support already. So I just gave people, I was like, before I dive into how I did this, like these are things that you really need to think about. But everyone’s biggest thing was like, my son was gonna end up in jail because statistics without a father, you know, all this stuff.

[00:25:43] And I’m like, well, those are statistics, so some people don’t end up in jail. You know what I mean? Like, but there was a lot of that. Now my son, I did make sure had a father figure from the day he was born, which was my brother, who is a huge part of my son’s life and has been since that day. And so, I did make sure that I had thought all of these things through, and I think when I made the video, it was at the time, you can, tiktoks are only a minute.

[00:26:12] So my video was 58 seconds. So it’s like, how do you explain all this in 58 seconds? And a lot of people in the comments were like, you should have just, you know, gotten drunk and like hooked up with someone. I’m like, no, I’ve done that before. Like, this is the better option for me at this point.

[00:26:28] So, in the comments I was like, really catty and funny about it, which is what I think made the video go more viral because people are like, oh, these comments are not even phasing this girl. Like, these people are writing vulgar, vulgar, vulgar things. But what I realized, I’m like, they don’t understand also.

[00:26:46] So I had not told people that I lost a child before I was gonna take that to the grave actually, when I had first posted this like video on TikTok. I had very much opened up on the Facebook and some of the other apps. But TikTok is its own thing. So, people were confused like, what just makes?

[00:27:03] And I’m like, I was a mother before. Like, I know what I was getting into. So that’s how I was able to plan for this. Which gave me another leg up, just kind of on motherhood on what to expect. So I had to kind of come on the TikTok and tell people like, “Hey, this is kind of what happened and why I made this choice. And everybody’s choice is different.” So since I’ve posted that video, I’ve had a lot of moms and women reach out to me. One mom reached out, I wanna say she lived maybe Atlanta or something. She’s a lawyer, she’s 40. She got out of a relationship for seven years. It was not going anywhere. She realized this was not her person.

[00:27:42] She had no idea that she could get pregnant this way. She was planning on doing $40,000 for IVF. And like, she’s onto her second baby, single mom by choice. She’s successful. She has these two kids now. And her life is very fulfilled in that way. There is another mom, I think she’s onto her second baby.

[00:28:00] She’s from Florida. She had reached out. I had kind of taught her the ways. And, you know, she had all this support from her dad and her family. And I think she’s now on her second baby too. But like, already successful in her mid thirties. And was feeling like that pull to motherhood. But was like, “oh, I thought I was gonna have to save up 40, $45,000 for IVF. Like, I had no idea that this was an option.” A lot of girls were like, “thank you so much. Like I’ve been with my boyfriend, he’s about to propose and I hate him, but I just like really wanna be a mom.” And I’m like, okay, don’t bring me into this. But like, I gave women another option to take life into your own hands, essentially responsibly, I hope.

[00:28:43] Now there would be 20 year olds reaching out to me and I’m like, live your life. No, I’m not even gonna entertain you. Live your life. You know,

[00:28:53] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:28:53] Dani Morin: wanna be a, I’m like, you have no idea what you’re getting yourself into. I’m like, live your life. Hit me up when you’re 30. You know?

[00:28:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Right.

[00:29:00] Dani Morin: So, ,

[00:29:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: it’s such a viable option

[00:29:01] Dani Morin: yeah.

[00:29:02] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: ‘ cause there’s plenty of people who out there find out their partner sperm can’t make it up there or they’re sterile and could try this and save so much money. Right. There’s, there’s a lot of people

[00:29:13] Dani Morin: Yes. Well, and I think a lot of people just don’t know it as an option or they think it’s an unsafe option. Now, I did have a fertility clinic stitch my video. And, they’re like, this is not a safe option. Like you definitely should, you know, come in and do IVF and IUI. It’s the safer option. So like I had on my other account, my Zippy Mom account, I was like, “oh, can you explain like why, what’s unsafe about, about it seems just like sex essentially.”

[00:29:48] And They could not come up with really a way except I realized, I was like, okay, so you’re just like hoping that the moms will spend. You don’t want moms that know that they’re fertile to not spend the 12,000 or $45,000 on IVF. Like, so I think people get in their minds, like going to a doctor’s office is just probably safer.

[00:30:06] But sex and this, it’s the same thing. And so they could not, so what their video back to my comment was, ” well you’ll have a better chance.” And I’m like, if you’re fertile, you’re fertile. You know? So, I got pregnant on the first try, you know, and I’ve clearly that doctor that told me tilted cervix, PCOS thing, you can’t get pregnant. That was a lie. So if, if doctors are telling you guys that just, don’t rely on that as truth. And now I’m pre,

[00:30:34] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: either. Breastfeeding, A lot of

[00:30:35] Dani Morin: yeah.

[00:30:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: you can’t get pregnant while you’re breastfeeding. Wrong.

[00:30:38] Dani Morin: Yeah, wrong. So many, that’s probably the robot, saying that. But yeah, so now I’m pregnant with twins, which I also got pregnant pretty quickly. I did have one cycle that I was like tracking ahead of time, but it was the cycle I took out the IUD, so I’m like, maybe that counts, maybe that doesn’t.

[00:30:56] There’s, you know, six week period that you gotta let that rest. But, and then I, I’m pregnant now, twins, so there’s that.

[00:31:05] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: clo or

[00:31:05] Dani Morin: But

[00:31:06] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: right? No. No egg dropping

[00:31:08] Dani Morin: no, so, even when I got pregnant via home insemination, I didn’t take any medication. I took, well, I will tell you what I took. I did vitamin D, I was taking a prenatal vitamin DI was taking something called avocitil, which was for PCOS, which I’d been taking for a while.

[00:31:30] And I was taking something called Vitex. All of these things you could get at Sprouts. Okay, that’s just your regular supplements. Now, Vitex. So my second pregnancy with my son Rett, who’s now almost five. that was actually a twin pregnancy, believe it or not. Vitex I found does the same thing, similar to Clomid.

[00:31:52] You should not be taking Vitex if you don’t need it. So Vitex is for people that are not getting a lengthy enough luteal phase. So this is where I was still kind of dipping into that crunchy stuff. So, Vitex supposedly will help supposedly, and I don’t know how much truth there is to this.

[00:32:12] If your luteal phase is not long enough, it could lengthen your luteal phase and get you more regular period. I did notice it was giving me more of a regular period. I will say that apparently if you do not need it, so if your period’s already regular, you already have a lengthy enough luteal phase that it could cause you to ovulate multiple times.

[00:32:33] So it could do something similar to Clomid. So I did not know that and I must have ovulated twice. Now it was Covid at the time, so you did not have your first doctor’s appointment until 10 weeks. So when I had gone in for my, ultrasound, they thought it was like a sub chronic hematoma, A SCH. And then they looked further into it and they’re like, oh my gosh, it was another baby.

[00:33:01] Just, it had, it looked like it stopped growing around seven weeks. So I was like, well, what happens? What, so what does it do? And they’re like, well, it’s called a vanishing twin syndrome. Which statistically, accounts for, I think it was like 42% of twin pregnancies equate for I could be off on that number, vanishing twin syndrome.

[00:33:22] So it’s very common. And a lot of times moms when they get to their appointment, don’t even know that there had been two babies in there. So, as you can imagine, I get pregnant now and I find out very early on I’m having twins. And I’m just like, I’m not gonna believe that because I know the statistics and I’ve researched this before, ’cause I’ve gone through this before.

[00:33:43] So, finally at like, I think I was like 13 or 14 weeks, and she’s like, have you like told your family and and your friends? And I was like, no. She’s like, well, you’re past vanishing twin syndrome. So I guess now is the point I tell you like, you’re having twins. Like, unless something happens, which like, you know, something like this is, these are twins now.

[00:34:05] Like you could tell people if you want that you’re having twins. But still in my mind I’m like thinking, well, I’ve gone through that. I didn’t go through that. Like I found out at my ultrasound like, here’s one baby that at there was another one, you know?

[00:34:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:34:20] Dani Morin: So, and then when I got pregnant this time with twins, I was doing my research again and it was just like the perfect storm.

[00:34:28] So if you’ve been pregnant with twins before and you’re over the age of 35. You’re like three times more likely for that to happen again. So it was just kind of like a perfect storm situation, I guess. I mean, I just don’t know. We look at it honestly like a crazy miracle. You know, they can’t really explain it.

[00:34:50] Ours was a split embryo, so it’s just a crazy situation. And we’re so excited. I fight the paranoia. Me and you talk about this. I have called for those of you guys listening, Hilary in hysterics, just over my

[00:35:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That wasn’t hysterics. Does that make you feel any better? That

[00:35:13] Dani Morin: was.

[00:35:13] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I don’t even call that hysterical.

[00:35:15] Dani Morin: When I was leaving you the voice messages and I’m like, hold on a second. I’m just like, I didn’t even get it together.

[00:35:24] It’s just like, I think the fear, I’m not vibing with the, and we could get into that with my doctor. And I just like,

[00:35:33] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: should mention you

[00:35:34] Dani Morin: yeah, you got

[00:35:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: between,

[00:35:36] Dani Morin: married

[00:35:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: re

[00:35:36] Dani Morin: in between. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So this pregnancy now, so I did meet somebody. Yeah, this pregnancy now natural with my husband. So 19 months ago I met a boy and I was set up with a guy that’s, we have mutual friends, we are set up. He lived across the country at the time. And so I thought it would be a good idea to fly out there and that we would have this 10 day road trip back to California where he would live in his friend’s back house until I let him move into the house. And a month after that, we were engaged.

[00:36:12] And eight months after that we were married. And a month after that we became pregnant. So this guy was just this single man bachelor in Boston, living his life. And now he’s essentially a married father of three.

[00:36:26] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Two years later, right

[00:36:28] Dani Morin: And he loves every minute of it. He’s such a good dad and he is. I had something a scare, I guess. A scare. It’s, I could talk to you if we could talk about that also, but, the other day, and he’s just like immediately hitting up the doctor, looking things up and like he’s so into the pregnancy and so into being Rhett’s dad. And reading the books on discipline and, you know, things like in the baby books. And he has like, just accepted this whole thing and he loves it. And so I, it’s been really fun. It’s been really fun doing this with a partner. So, now I will say the funniest part about this, and this may be TMI. The funniest part about this, so I got knocked up, so I was single. And then I did home insemination single. I’ve never been in a position where you are intimate during pregnancy. And I’m like, can you hurt the baby? Like, how does it, and he is like, well, what? And I’m like, no, I’ve never had to do this in pregnancy before. I’ve always been single. I’ve never, like, you know, and so I have, some of this stuff is also brand new to me.

[00:37:37] Like I’m looking up like, does it, can you. Like pop your amniotic fluid sack. Like, I’m like, I don’t all these. I know it sounds so crazy, but these are things that now as a third time mom, I’m having to look up for the first time, which is just hilarious.

[00:37:54] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Well, I think that happens on every baby. All of a sudden you have new concerns ’cause you’re older or your other one did something. Also not an unknown concerns. Many people have asked me that question, so I don’t think I have a post,

[00:38:04] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:38:05] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: about that on my site, but pretty close.

[00:38:08] Dani Morin: I’m shocked you don’t have a post. I’m shocked you don’t have a post specific to that because when I reached out to you at, was I 14 weeks pregnant and I go, why am I lactating? Am I going into labor?

[00:38:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: like, girl, I totally have a post on that.

[00:38:26] Dani Morin: And you sent me a post so fast, like you were faster than the robot at that point. Like you were like, this is actually completely normal.

[00:38:34] Go to Walmart and get some nursing pads because this is your life now. So, yeah, so I’m currently wearing the nursing pads. It was the craziest thing and it wasn’t anything that triggered it. I just, like, my breast had been very tender. And I was like, looked down and I’m like, why are my nipples like I had on a gray t-shirt and I’m like, what is going on?

[00:38:58] To me? I was like, this has to be a sign. I’m going into preterm labor. You know, which is like my biggest fear and a common fear with twins. So I guess it’s normal. And so it’s just like what I’m gonna have to be like dealing with. I’m not collecting milks. So some people I’ve told, they’re like, oh girl, put that in the freezer.

[00:39:15] And I’m like.

[00:39:16] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: first

[00:39:16] Dani Morin: Hilary gave me the, Hilary gave me the advice to chill for a little bit, and we will consider doing that later in pregnancy.

[00:39:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: in your third

[00:39:23] Dani Morin: So,

[00:39:24] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: we start doing that.

[00:39:25] Dani Morin: yeah. So, yeah, so that’s where we’re at now, but, so far so good. I think with my pregnancy, I’m not having the O-B-G-Y-N experience that I have had in the past, nor that I thought that I was gonna have.

[00:39:41] So that’s kind of been difficult. But thank God for you and for some other people that I could like, rely on for questions and concerns, so, yeah.

[00:39:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: a lot of people online will just say, if you don’t like your provider, just switch. And every time I see that, I’m like, it’s so much more complicated than that. For some people, they live rural.

[00:39:58] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:39:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: There is one OB in that town and they have to go several hours to a new ob. So that’s not fair to those people.

[00:40:05] And if you’re high risk, you kind of get egged

[00:40:07] Dani Morin: Mm.

[00:40:07] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: into one, one practice. ’cause you need a referral or your insurance only covers one, you know, fetal medicine group. It’s tricky.

[00:40:15] Dani Morin: Well, so kind of what I had learned, and so I had learned a couple things, going through this process of trying to change doctors and just so everybody knows I have yet to be successful. I have one workaround that I have to wait till 18 weeks to try to get out of this situation that I’m in. But I am high risk.

[00:40:37] So I am gestational hypertension, I’m geriatric and I have twins. So kind of how it was explained to me, was that, you know, these doctors, they don’t. They wouldn’t wanna take a risky transfer. Now, if you go to their office and you’re risky, you know, you’re already their patient, they don’t wanna take a risky transfer because for every baby that does not make it, they kind of get a mark on their name a little bit. So they’re like, you’re someone’s already dealing with you. Don’t bring that over here. You know, you already have an MFM and, and a doctor team over there. Like, don’t be bringing that over. Like, we don’t want that. So, it would have been different. So one doctor told me, like, yeah, it would be different if you were, yeah, third successful pregnancy, you had two, you know, positive vaginal birth and this is your third pregnancy and everything is going good.

[00:41:28] Singleton, like, no risks associated with this. Like, yeah, come on over. This is a different situation. And so the transfers are not happening now. I was a little spoiled. I had two doctors in Orange County. I went to St. Jude with my son, Deacon. Phenomenal experience. Great office. Traumatic birth, but that’s because I was trying to be the all natural mom, and I should have listened to the doctor and made different decisions.

[00:41:55] That’s all on me. I’m not gonna look back on that. But my second birth, I was at Hoag, which is just, it’s the mastros of all birthing places, hospitals. Like the way they treat you, the way the doctors treat you. So how it works there is, if you have any concern whatsoever, any concern like.

[00:42:18] A twinge of, and now you’re, and you have gotten it in your mind that your baby has passed in your 10 weeks. Like if you have anything, you just walk right on in there. So you have your own provider and you walk into the doctor’s office, but there is 12 other OBGYNs there. Someone will check you out real quick.

[00:42:36] The high-end ultrasound is right there. The LabCorp is right there that does your blood. Your pelvic floor therapy is in the same office and, the hospital’s across the street, if you needed to waltz over there for something. The NS STS are in there and you have your own private room and a tv ’cause you know you’re in there for hours or two.

[00:42:55] It is a premium experience. This situation, I found out I was having twins. I was so sick with morning sickness, she sent me to that imaging center to get, your ultrasound. So you go to the hospital to get your ultrasounds done. And, I was in there and it was an ultrasound tech who was giving me information out of her scope of practice that she shouldn’t have been.

[00:43:17] And two students all taking turns trans badging me, ultrasound wise. And guess who was not in that room? My husband, because it’s against their policy. And I found out one of the biggest pieces of news of my life alone, while two 20-year-old students trans vaged me. In a ultrasound room for 45 minutes.

[00:43:42] And it was one of those things, again, I did not know that this was not normal because I posted a video and people were like, oh, how did your husband take finding out you’re having twins? And I was like, oh, I have a video of it. ’cause I had walked out in the waiting room and I showed my husband the, the ultrasound and people are like, “Jeremy ultrasounds aren’t scary. You could go in there with her.” And I’m like, “oh no, he’s not allowed to come in.”

[00:44:02] And people are like, dude, that’s basic standard of care is for him to be in there with you during this news. Like, what if he found out bad news? Then I had all these girls riding me and being like, oh my gosh. The ultrasound center, I found out I was having a still birth there alone while my husband was in the waiting room and I had to do the, where I walk out and shake my head at 28 weeks that we lost our baby alone.

[00:44:24] And I’m like, oh my God. Like this is insane. And they’re like, well that’s just our policy, like go to another hospital. And I’m like, no. See, that’s the thing. I would love to, I can’t. And then I’ve just had some issues. So with the gestational hypertension of it all, it’s something very scary ’cause it could turn into preeclampsia.

[00:44:45] Now I have never had preeclampsia, but I’ve had gestational hypertension in both of my pregnancies. Could it be stress? And I have the high blood pressure, who knows what it’s from. But, it’s something that my previous doctor took extremely seriously. Starting at like, I think maybe even 24 weeks, I was having two nst every, every week.

[00:45:05] She took it extremely seriously. I slept overnight in the hospital twice during that pregnancy just because they’re like, “Hey, we’re gonna just do some further monitor.” Like they take it extremely seriously. And I was talking to you ’cause I’m like, usually I start this gestational hypertension protocol around like 10 or 12 weeks from what I can remember.

[00:45:26] Like, I’m shocked. My doctor is like not having me start this, knowing my history. Well, I had, had, I tracked my blood pressure. So I had, tracked my blood pressure for five days and I was on five days of it being high. And I put in the little, ’cause you can’t just go to the office, you have to do it in the health record.

[00:45:43] So I put in the health record like, Hey, I’m concerned about my blood pressure. And they’re like, well, when you were here four weeks ago, it was fine. So that’s what we’re going off of. And I’m like, that’s great. Now we’re here and I’m having five days of high blood, consistent high blood pressure. I’m worried about it.

[00:45:58] I’m also concerned that I haven’t been starting the high blood pressure protocol. Which if you guys don’t know, it’s, it’s essentially baby aspirin. Now, my other doctor, the baby aspirin, I went to the pharmacy, I gave a prescription and they handed it to me. You could buy it over the counter, but that’s just how it worked in the past.

[00:46:15] So she’s like, well, if you feel that strongly about starting it, go ahead and get some. And I’m like, get some what? And she said, and this is via chat. She said, get some LDA. And I’m like, what’s LDA? She’s like, low dose aspirin. And I’m like, milligrams. Like, I’m like having like Why am I having to ask this?

[00:46:33] Like, she’s like, yeah, if that’s what you want. I’m like, okay. So I go and get it. I start that and I felt confident in starting it. ’cause you and I had talked and also because in my previous pregnancies, that’s when I started at 10 weeks. So finally like I’m just getting to a point where I’m like, I feel a little bit in the dark with this pregnancy. I want a meeting with the doctor.

[00:46:57] And so we call a meeting with the doctor. And from what I had heard from people who are kind of in like hospital administration, is that, which is my sister. She’s like, I am certain your doctor’s gonna be very much on your side. I am certain your doctor also doesn’t like the imaging center’s situation of not letting your husband come in.

[00:47:16] She was like, sometimes it’s not the doctors that you should be mad at. It’s just the procedures and like what’s in place. And the protocols in place. And like, I guarantee my sister’s like, you’re gonna go in there and she’s gonna be very empathetic to how you’re feeling and maybe probably agree with you on some things.

[00:47:34] And she’s like, these doctors are overwhelmed. They’re, you know, the hospitals don’t always listen to the doctors and so I think she’s really gonna have your back. So I went in thinking like, I’m gonna be met with some compassion here. That’s what I’m thinking. So I go in and I’m very nice. I’m like, I did the shit sandwich. So, I went in and I was like, I wanna start off by saying that your office has been phenomenal. Like, I love the women that work here. I really appreciate the chat feature, even though I’m used to being able to just go in and see a doctor, but like, okay, I like the chat feature. I’m like, I do have some concerns where I’m not sure if I’m getting the level of care that I deserve.

[00:48:11] And she immediately goes into the defense and she’s like, she’s like, I’ve been doing this for 23 years. I answer you back in the chat. Like, if you need something, you have to ask. Like, if you don’t ask, I’m like, I don’t think that I should be asking, about low dose aspirin for high blood pressure considering I’ve had it in all of my pregnancies. And it’s definitely recorded. And you know about that. She’s like, you’re having twins. You should be taking two. And I was like, so that’s my husband steps in and he’s like, okay, so this right here is the first we’re hearing of this. And at this point I’m like, 15 weeks. So this right here is the first we’re hearing of, she should be taking two.

[00:48:48] I’m like, do I take two prenatals? Do I take 2D HA? Like what else should I be taking? Like, and I’m starting to write stuff down. I’m like, this is the first time you’ve spent more than five minutes with me. So I honestly don’t, is there anything else I should know? And she’s like, well, just ask, what do you want to know?

[00:49:01] And I’m like, I want you to treat me like this is my first pregnancy. I’m like, I also have concerns with my husband not being there in my ultrasounds. She’s like, that’s not on me. Take that up with the hospital. I’m like, it is on you. You sent me there, you sent me to a place that doesn’t allow my husband, so no, it is on you.

[00:49:21] And so we never met, and she’s like, well, if you wanna transfer, you know, good luck with that. Go to the front and I’ll try to do it. And I’m like, okay, well you and I both know I’ve already been trying to transfer and I’m not having luck. So at this point. I’m gonna see the nurse practitioner until my birth.

[00:49:39] You unfortunately are gonna be the one to slice and dice me open. Just land that plane with all souls on board, including my own please. Like that’s, at this point, just land that plane. I don’t care if there’s turbulence. I don’t care if, if, you know, an engine goes out, okay. All souls must be safe when we land and just land that plane.

[00:50:02] And that’s kind of where we have left it. So I did my research with my robot that there is a little bit of a workaround. So, when I start seeing the MFM, if the MFM sees something. In my ultrasound with twin pregnancies, like the MFMs, they go through everything with a fine tooth comb and almost 100% of the time they find something, a shadow, a spot or whatever.

[00:50:28] I can request a second opinion and I can request that second opinion at the hospital in which I would want to go to. And when they take me in to do that second opinion, I’m kind of registered as a patient. So I’m going to, try to do that workaround, possibly. So that’s kind of where we’re at, at from here.

[00:50:49] Again, that’s what my robot’s saying.

[00:50:51] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: should not be having, we’re getting to the robot. Don’t you worry. You should not have to ask your doctor about aspirin. That should be one of the first things that providers are getting on that first appointment is going through all the questions about aspirin, because there’s a lot, like some of it’s if your mom or your sister had high blood pressure, which wouldn’t be related to your health history at all.

[00:51:11] So they have to go through a list of a few questions, which, by the way, you were having twins. They, they don’t even have to go through the questions because that’s one of the ones. But people, I get frustrated when the doctor’s like, well, you should just ask. And I’m like, well, how on earth are people gonna know to ask? Like, that doesn’t make any sense to me, but God bless.

[00:51:29] Dani Morin: Yeah, so I mean, I was kind of being catty towards the end of the situation at this meeting, and I was like, should I ask you now for like maybe an anesthesiologist at my C-section? Like, what else do I need to ask for? Like, I was like, I just asked. Had, and I feel like there is a way, and if providers are listening to this, I just want, and I made a video coming out of this meeting and I will post it after I have my birth.

[00:51:57] There was a way she could have addressed the situation and never admitted that she was wrong or that any of this is bad. There was a way she could have done that, and that’s with a single ounce of compassion. If she could have mustered up the courage to even have a single ounce of compassion. I’m gonna go to a ob GYN, this is on my list. I’m gonna pitch the OB GYN conferences, and I’m gonna go up there as a patient and be like, here’s a way that you can address the concerns of your patient without ever saying that you’re wrong. Had I walked in there and said, I have some concerns. I feel like I’m not being heard. I’m not giving enough time.

[00:52:42] Had you been up there and just said, “I am so sorry that you are feeling this way. I would never want one of my patients who’s pregnant to have to feel this way. Let’s discuss some ways that I could better help you and we could better help each other in communicating so you get the best care possible.”

[00:53:03] Do you see how I just talked right there where I never said like, I am so sorry that I did that. I should have done better. That is totally on me and like, I should, you know, I should be sending you to a different ultrasound. Never she had, she just gone in there and been like, I’m so sorry you are feeling this way.

[00:53:20] I never want my patients to feel this way. Let’s discuss some things together and be a team here. Do you see how a tiny bit of compassion could have changed the entire directory of the situation

[00:53:34] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah,

[00:53:35] Dani Morin: it, and,

[00:53:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: so

[00:53:36] Dani Morin: it, it was just not there.

[00:53:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: or any customer service business. Obviously she don’t care about the customer service. Have you watched The PIT yet?

[00:53:44] Dani Morin: I haven’t Is that on Paramount?

[00:53:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s on Max,

[00:53:49] Dani Morin: think it’s on paramount.

[00:53:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: talking about patient satisfaction scores, which can be frustrating as a healthcare provider because you’re like, you’re not giving us enough staff. That is literally why our patient satisfaction scores suck. So anyway,

[00:54:00] Dani Morin: And that’s what I think my sister was trying to get at was like they’re, the doctors are dealing with a lot too, and they’re very much like on the team of the patient. So I went in there thinking she’s gonna be on the team of the patient and just be like, Hey, there’s some stuff going around. We are fighting for changes right now.

[00:54:15] And like, you know, you got caught up anything. Except she was like, I’ve been doing this 23 years. No one has ever had a problem with me. This is a you thing. Like, and I was like, oh my God. So I’m just hoping that when she sews up my C-section scar that it’s like somewhat in a line. Like, I just hope it’s not like a squiggly mark, like she’s all, I’m gonna show her.

[00:54:38] Like I just, you know, and she’s a professional and I just, one of my good friends just had twins, same doctor, same c-section, super successful babies. Didn’t spend one day in the nicu. She had the best care there. It was the best team of people. She felt very confident. And so therefore, I’m kind of like holding onto that right now.

[00:54:58] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:54:59] Dani Morin: I was sent to this doctor by everybody in my community. Everyone, and I’m not gonna say the doctor’s name, but everybody was like. Like this person, she’s the best. Oh my God, there’s no better doctor. And what I realized is that I have been eating at Mastros with my pregnancies

[00:55:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:55:18] Dani Morin: the, and some of these girls, they don’t know anything better than McDonald’s.

[00:55:22] And so to them it’s been a great experience. But I think for me, when I’ve had this high standard of care, and now I’m at a situation where I’m like, but this seems different. You know, not that it’s bad, it’s probably just normal. But I don’t think I’m asking for a lot to just tell me the medications I should be on for something that could cause preeclampsia.

[00:55:44] You know what I mean?

[00:55:45] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That’s a real push in the United States right now. It’s not like this is something weird. I wanna,

[00:55:50] Dani Morin: Yeah. So we’ll see when this comes out.

[00:55:53] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s hard to watch videos of people like at birth centers that are like lighting and a tub in the room and, you know, special music you can play. Whereas I’ve worked at birth centers that, we were lucky if the, the tile was like intact, right?

[00:56:06] Like, you know,

[00:56:08] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:56:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Or that there weren’t roaches falling out of the ceiling, which has happened at some of the hospitals that I worked at. And so sometimes when I watch these, it’s really hard to compare like situations just because it varies so much. And I know even in the south it’s even worse than where I am at. So,

[00:56:25] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:56:25] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s always tricky when you compare doctors and stuff like that. But Dani, I have also been talking about how she uses her, AI robot to answer her pregnancy questions. And I’ve always been like. Stop! I am your AI robot. Just text me. And you’re like, no, I have my AI robot trained on the right sites or whatever. what are some things you’re, you’ve

[00:56:44] Dani Morin: What are some things.

[00:56:45] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: robot, and I’m gonna tell you if that’s safe to ask Orate. know what aspirin would’ve been safe to ask? I’ll give it that probably.

[00:56:53] Dani Morin: Okay, so one thing that I asked my robot last night is, is it okay to get Botox and laminate? Not that I’m going to, but I’m seeing pregnant girls and their faces look near perfect, and I know that ain’t natural. And I put that on my stories and people were like, yeah, no, it’s totally fine now. And I’m like, Hmm.

[00:57:14] So you’re saying, no,

[00:57:16] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I think it’s a no, as far as I know, Botox is a no, just because they don’t know if that could get into your bloodstream or something like that. I don’t understand brow lamination, so I don’t know how, how that could accumulate in your body. The internet told me to write a post on that, but I was so out of my, have

[00:57:33] Dani Morin: it’s too new.

[00:57:34] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I don’t know. I don’t know.

[00:57:36] Dani Morin: It’s too, it’s too new.

[00:57:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: for a long time they didn’t even massage pregnant women because they were worried that they could hurt the baby, which now I’m like, come on. Like we gotta,

[00:57:45] Dani Morin: What about, how do you tell your twins apart?

[00:57:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I’ve seen parents put a little sharpie on one of the toenails, like the big

[00:57:54] Dani Morin: You said that and I feel like that’s a good, okay.

[00:57:58] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah,

[00:57:59] Dani Morin: so I,

[00:58:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: polish

[00:58:00] Dani Morin: so,

[00:58:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: off harder. Like it comes off easier. Fingernail polish,

[00:58:05] Dani Morin: okay, so this is another one that I, freaked out over was what’s the difference between discharge or my water breaking? My robot told me like, the,

[00:58:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I have 16 articles about that.

[00:58:17] Dani Morin: can you send those to me? Because I had a scare this weekend. I like sat down and I felt like, what was like a gush or something and I immediately called the doctor and was like, I think my water broke.

[00:58:28] It turned out it was a more of a milky texture and that’s what my robot said. It would be more of a milky texture in which it, in which it was,

[00:58:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. I have

[00:58:36] Dani Morin: um.

[00:58:37] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: is it pee? What, what does it feel like when my water breaks? Because most people will feel a pop. I would say 70% of the people I say they feel a pop when their water breaks. So that sometimes can help people reassure. But the big one is that your water just

[00:58:51] Dani Morin: Is that

[00:58:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: out. If it’s

[00:58:54] Dani Morin: Yes.

[00:58:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: not. It.

[00:58:55] Dani Morin: So that’s what I have.

[00:58:57] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. So I

[00:58:58] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:58:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: just, when I was writing articles based on Google searches, I would just do AI for fun. Like, I was like, can you drink wine during pregnancy? And AI was like, absolutely. The antioxidants in wine, I would suggest two to three glasses a day. And I was like, strong work ai, really, really good work.

[00:59:14] And then I wrote one is sour cream safe during pregnancy? And it was like, absolutely not. Your risk of listeria goes up with sour cream. And I was like, pasteurized

[00:59:23] Dani Morin: Oh my gosh. I feel like pasteurization is okay

[00:59:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: no

[00:59:28] Dani Morin: anyways.

[00:59:29] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: cream? Totally fine. Yeah. Also, you

[00:59:31] Dani Morin: Okay. Okay.

[00:59:31] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: you get listeria. Maybe you can get listeria from unpasteurized cheese products like brie, you’re not supposed to be eating, unpasteurized cheese

[00:59:40] Dani Morin: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t mess with that. I don’t mess with that. Anyways.

[00:59:43] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: the time for brie. Right.

[00:59:45] Dani Morin: Yeah.

[00:59:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Let’s get some brie in me.

[00:59:48] Dani Morin: Well you’ve just been like the best thing for me during this pregnancy and I so appreciate you and I hope that people use you as a resource. You just put out so much good stuff and you’re someone I trust and your stuff is easily digestible and I just really, really appreciate it and our friendship, so thank you.

[01:00:04] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: you. We gotta get Jeremy in the birth class though ’cause he obviously is ripe and ready to go. So we’re gonna get Dani

[01:00:11] Dani Morin: we will.

[01:00:11] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: the birth class ’cause

[01:00:13] Dani Morin: We will.

[01:00:14] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: that’ll answer a lot of everyone’s questions too, probably. Thank you for coming on. This has been so much fun. I

[01:00:19] Dani Morin: Thank you.

[01:00:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I hate that that doctor was like, this is unsafe.

[01:00:23] Because when doctors do stuff like that, it doesn’t open up the door for like collaboration or the fact that it really is not unsafe. Especially compared to regular sex where you could pass chlamydia or gonorrhea, like a syringe is a lot safer from like a medical perspective.

[01:00:37] Dani Morin: Yeah,

[01:00:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So anyway,

[01:00:40] Dani Morin: they wanna make money. But yeah.

[01:00:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And,

[01:00:43] Dani Morin: Thank you for letting me. You

[01:00:44] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Make sure you follow Dani. She has so many good tips on car seats, child safety. It’s gonna also be fun to watch Dani head into life with three kids, versus just one ’cause I’m sure there’s gonna be a lot of fun, chaos to, enjoy

[01:00:56] Dani Morin: love you.

[01:00:57] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: all. All right, we’ll talk to you later.

[01:00:59] Dani Morin: Bye.

[01:01:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. It was fun to like bounce around a different topic. Dani and I are obviously friends, but I think three things that I learned. First off, you know, the money is important. And I really love that she tried something that worked for her instead of just doing something that kind of was the standard for getting pregnant.

[01:01:17] Second of all, if you’re in a position where you can’t switch providers, sometimes you have to make do. She’s definitely looked around like we’ve talked a lot about it. But I just want people to know that sometimes you don’t get the provider of your dreams, but can still have a really great outcome.

[01:01:30] And third watch ai, those robots will get you. thank you for coming on Dani. I hope you guys will join us on our next episode.

[01:01:36] Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

getting pregnant, home insemination, sperm donor, unplanned pregnancy, single mom by choice, IVF, IUI, PCOS, tilted cervix, prenatal care, child loss, grief, parenting guilt, Baltic amber teething necklace, child safety, product safety, natural parenting, evidence-based parenting, social media advocacy, birth plan, switching OB providers, high risk pregnancy, gestational hypertension, low dose aspirin in pregnancy, twin pregnancy, pregnancy anxiety, provider communication, hospital policies, AI for pregnancy questions, financial planning for parenthood, support systems

The post Unconventional Conception Stories and Advocacy in Motherhood with Dani Morin appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Bond with Baby Before Birth:

The best, BEST thing to do to bond with baby is to do kick counts. Now, before we get started a LOT of people tell you to do kick counts the WRONG way and I’m here to stop that — so grab my kick count cheat sheet right here:

As a labor and delivery nurse of 20 years — I really know what I’m talking about on this one.

BUT, why can kick counts help you bond with baby? It’s a great question, because some people just say it makes them feel anxious — but I’m here to say, maybe they’re not doing it the right way?

First off, the cliff notes of kick counts is that you note the time, sit there and feel for 10 movements, and then note the time again. Then, each day you’re just going to look for a pattern. I recommend getting an app that will help you sort of chart them and maybe start to see a pattern. Most often we start kick counts at about 27 weeks.

And, if you have a million questions — I hope I answer them in this episode:

But, WHY would these simple kick counts help you bond with baby. Let me give you three ways.

Map that Baby

Do you wish you had a window you could peek into baby? The thing is, you do — but it’s baby’s movement, not an actual window (because, that would probably be really bad — all things considered).

Those bigger kicks are probably legs, and the smaller movements are likely arms…. heads can shake and dig…. You truly can figure out which way they are in your womb, and you can be the expert on their movements — but you gotta “listen” — and kick counts is a GREAT time to do that!

Dream

I think a lot of kick counts is a time filled with anxiety if baby will give them the movements, but I would say it’s a time to close your eyes (and obviously feel for movements) but just dream about life with this baby.

In case you need a few jumping off points:

• That first smile, how it will capture your entire heart
• That first time they realize what Christmas really is, and how magical it is.
• Have a favorite childhood haunt — how amazing it’s going to be to share it with them…
• Their first few halloween costumes where you get entire say over what they’ll be and how your heart just explodes as you see them toddle around in it.

And, as a mom who’s been around a few blocks — the amazing feeling of pride you have in that little person when they graduate college or high school or just any big accomplishment. You think that heart explodes with that first smile, but when you see them work so hard on something big — oh man, insert me crying here.

You are going to have so much wonderful life together. So, dream about it as you count those kicks.

Involve Others

It’s amazing to feel the kicks yourself but involving someone ELSE you love can make it even more amazing:

• Partners
• Other siblings (kids LOVE to help with this — and they need to bond with baby too!)
• Mom/Friend

It really is amazing that you’re able to produce an entire other person inside your body. Let’s feel how amazing it is, together.

If you can’t tell I’m a huge kick count advocate and I think there are SO many benefits. Remember that fetal movement is your best indicator of fetal well being and any big changes in fetal movement outside their normal pattern should take you into your provider.

When done correctly fetal kick counts save 33% of stillbirths — that means 1 in 3 parents would have a baby with them, rather than just grief. Those stats make me wildly passionate about it. DO it. :)_

Looking for more info on kick counts — be sure to check out these posts:

• Kick Counts Made Simple: FAQs, Expert Tips, and Why It Can Save Babies’ Lives
• Normal Daily Fetal Movement – Kick Counts
• 7 Things You’re Doing Wrong in Your Third Trimester
• The Importance of Kick Counts with Emily Price from Count the Kicks
• 35 Weeks Pregnant Checklist

Ok, so I think kick counts are the best ways to bond with baby — but what can you do right when baby is out to bond with them? I’m glad you asked…

I want to mention, really fast, that a lot of this made me feel insane in the beginning. To be doing this with someone who could barely even interact or look at me in the eye felt weird — so if you’re in that camp, I see you — and I promise this will get better and start to feel more natural.

Read Them a Book

This was the easiest one for me — I often was too tired to even think of something I could do with them — but I did get a few board books at my shower and we’d look at them together.

Now, often children’s books don’t work great for newborns to LOOK at (they still love to hear you talk though). Their brand new eyes need high contrast — and once you give them something high contrast you’ll see some serious attention from them. I think these are cool — but I also had some black and white images that I laminated at my local school supply shop, and they worked well too.

This high contrast phase doesn’t last long, but when they’re still sort of a pile of goo — it’s your best option.

Don’t feel like you have to READ the book – -you can just point out the lion and say “rar” — they just love your voice, and learning, and you can give them that!

Really quick, Kiwi Crate offers a cool infant crate that you can find right here. You can get toys tailored SPECIFICALLY to where your baby is at. As a parent who literally had NO idea how to “play” with a baby — they would have been so helpful for me!

Feed Them

Feeding time is a GREAT time to get their attention, to chat and just enjoy each other.

I see a lot of people saying that breastfeeding promotes better bonding, but I honestly have no idea why. It was still me there, holding a bottle (on top of breasts that wouldn’t feed them) — so, we still bonded a LOT as I fed them.

This takes a LOT of your day — so it makes sense to make the most of that time.

Of course, any of your other “functional” time will be like this. Changing diapers, putting clothes on — chat it up with them!

BTW, if you’re like — I’m weak on those baby tasks, I totally get that. I recommend this.

Sing to Them

Now, you have to take this time when they enjoy your singing without any sarcastic comments — take it!

Have a favorite pop song? sing it.

Have a favorite children’s song? — sing it?

No idea what to sing, put some children song’s or lullabies on your favorite media player and find a few that you love to sing to them.

It doesn’t have to be intricate, you don’t have to be good at it, but just you smiling and dancing with them to some tunes will build that bond in a fun way.

And while we’re at it – -dream about those dance parties you’ll have in a few months with your new favorite toddler. There is a lot to look forward to!

Narrate Life

This one felt the weirdest, but I think it’s so important (and later, when I’d drive to work without them I’d find myself still doing it — and thinking I was insane).

But in reality, I was just a really good baby/toddler mom.

If you’re like — what would I say? You’re just going to narrate the whole day. You can take it more of a Morgan Freeman type method, or you can just be like “arm! This is your ARM — we’re pulling it through your SLEEVE.”

We’d go on walks and I’d talk about the crunchy leaves, the bright sun, the wind on our face.

I’d make dinner telling them about all the ingredients and why I chose this delicious recipe for dinner.

When we were changing the laundry I would tell them what color the shirts were, or we’d count the socks. I’d love them feel WET clothes and DRY clothes….

We’d be in the car and I say oh GOSH there’s a FIRE ENGINE and woah, there’s our favorite ICE CREAM place, and now that’s the library where we get BOOKS….

Again, you’re just narrating it — and bonus points if you make it fun and exciting by changing your voice as you do it. They love that!

This the best teaching you can do as a mom, and someday your little one will say “fire engine” from that back seat and you’ll realize you’ve been teaching this whole time.

Let me say that we’ve sort of been taught that we need fancy toys, or the best gear to teach our kids — but let me be the one to tell you that:

• Feeling for your baby to move
• Narrating your life
• Allowing them to experience life with you

Are some of the very best things you can do to both bond with baby and promote learning for them.

Mostly I just want to encourage you to try.

It may make you feel anxious, or silly, or maybe it is the freedom you’ve always wanted to be a little silly with a purpose — I think that’s what it brought out for me.

While we’re here, I love that you’re getting prepared for baby — but I gotta ask are you preparing (and bonding) with your PARTNER? That’s why I created this. Getting prepared together is one of the smartest things you can do — because both mom & dad need these skills to help that baby to grow and be the big, strong, smart influence you want in this world!

Not sure we’re a good fit check out my free class — It’s your first step towards being your own birth boss.

The post How to Bond with Baby: Before Birth & After appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Before we get going — why on earth take the word from someone at “Pulling Curls???” Great question! Many of you may know me as The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I’ve got 20 years of beside L&D experience. Now I’m the internet’s go-to birth educator. I’m so glad you’re here with me!

Honestly, so many women ignore this part (to really poor consequences, ultimately), so I’m really glad we can chat about this!

Invite

This one can feel like you have to do everything (including invite them), but they may also not want to over-step. For instance, they probably don’t want you coming to their physicals, so they’re not sure if you want them there with you at appointments. And, some women don’t WANT their partner’s at the appointments — everyone’s different, and communication is key (as always).

And frankly, it may not be the best use of your family’s time, but invite them. See if they can come!

(and don’t get your feelings hurt if they can’t — work is tricky to shift around)

Tell them you’d love them there for:

• Appointments with your provider
• Any classes you’re doing through your provider
• Ultrasounds or other testing

Sure, you can do the 3-hour glucose on your own, but when they’re there to support you it allows them to actually see what you’re doing to keep this baby healthy and may help them have a mind-shift as to their part in all of this.

Now’s a great time to share this post with them — I have a partner series they might be interested in:

And, if you’re thinking there is ZERO chance they want emails from me — grab this birth plan series and invite them to sit down and help you with your birth plan. They get a say in this too (especially the baby choices):

And while we’re here — invite them to do kick counts with you. I honestly didn’t even think of it til’ I was talking to some people about them. It reminds them that this pregnancy is real and there are things both of you can do to stay safe. And, if you’re thinking “kick counts”???? I have a cheat sheet (because I’m shocked by how many providers share them wrong):

Kick counts are also awesome to do with baby’s siblings — fun for the whole family to feel for baby to kick!

Share

Since you’re here (LOVE that by the way) you’re likely watching videos, reading articles and maybe following a few good sources on social media (be sure to watch those sources) — you’re starting to get prepared for this birth.

So, use those share buttons when you have an aha moment that you think would benefit them.

I’d also recommend including a message about why you thought it was important (maybe to differentiate it from any cat videos you usually send).

I’d also bring it up as you’re at home together — “Hey, honey — did you get that video from The Pregnancy Nurse I sent you? I thought it was so cool to learn what contractions actually do — isn’t it amazing???” This will clue them in to the fact that this is important to you. I always have to remind myself that they’re not mind readers….

BTW if you’re looking for more articles to prepare you for labor — check these out:

• Informed Consent During Pregnancy: Knowing Your Rights
• You Don’t Need to Know Everything—Just This Before Birth
• Vacuums, Forceps and Birth: What Every Parent Should Know About Assisted Deliveries
• Kick Counts Made Simple: FAQs, Expert Tips, and Why It Can Save Babies’ Lives
• 5 Things I Did for a Faster Labor

Prepare

While reading articles, watching videos or reels (btw, be sure to follow The Pregnancy Nurse on your favorite platform — You Tube, Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook) is amazing — I just want to share a few facts about using social media for prep:

1. There are a lot of poor sources out there, and sometimes it can be hard to tell who’s good, and who’s not (especially on short-form videos — people are very good at acting like experts).
2. You’re going to waste a LOT of time — so many repeats (hello to all my kick counts videos — I you — but I’m sure it gets old if you’re watching me over and over again). I feel this as I look for gardening content online.
3. Your partner isn’t with you — you’re going to get a LOT of good info, but you want them prepared too (without you having to sit down and teach them everything you know).

That’s why I created this.

• Taught by an evidence and experience-based expert you can trust
• Cut-out the fluff (and no repeats) to get you prepared in record time
• Engaging to where you’re both going to enjoy it. It’s the class for both of you!

I am proud to say that class has prepared thousands of couples since 2016 and I update it constantly to make sure it’s up to date for what you’ll be facing in the hospital!

Ok, — how involved is your partner in this birth prep? Do you wish it was MORE, or are you just not sure how to best involve them. I know you’re busy, and using your time wisely during this busy season is smart. Let me know in the comments.

I’m so glad you’re here getting prepared with me. Want more articles on getting a supportive partner?

• How to Be a Supportive Husband and Partner During Pregnancy
• What To Do About A Selfish Husband During Pregnancy?
• What to Do If Your Girlfriend is Pregnant
• Can I Breastfeed my Husband During Pregnancy?
• My Boyfriend Says I Feel Different Inside During Pregnancy

The post How to Get Your Partner Ready Before the Baby Comes appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Or, watch the video version:

Big thanks to our sponsor Laborie, makes of the Kiwi® Complete Vacuum Delivery System: https://www.laborie.com/product/kiwi/

Today’s guest is Dr. Tori O’Daniel. She is a Board-Certified OB/GYN whom has been practicing for 14 years. For the past 11 years she has been an OB/GYN Hospitalist in OKC, Oklahoma. Dr. O’Daniel is the Medical Director for the OB Hospitalist and women’s services. She also is the Medical Director for Women’s Health Services at Mercy Hospital. She instructs educational classes and facilitates the OB Emergency Simulations for the nurses and physicians within her department. As an Adjunct Faculty at Oklahoma State University, she is the Director of the Medical Student Clinical rotations at her institution.

She has been actively involved in the Society of OB/GYN Hospitalists (SOGH) for the past several years. She co-chaired the Simulation committee in 2020 & 2021 and Co-Chaired the ACM 2022 & 2023. She currently serves on the Board of Directors.

Dr. O’Daniel is passionate about education and advocating for women’s safety in health care. Thus, she actively teaches across the country about vacuum assisted deliveries, treating post partum hemorrhage and other OBGYN Emergencies.

Links for you:

Previous episode sponsored by Laborie (#246) about plus size moms in labor: https://www.pullingcurls.com/246-plus-size/

Timestamps:

00:00 Assisted Delivery and Labor Mechanics

03:22 Assisted Vaginal Delivery Options

06:26 Decline of Forceps in Deliveries

10:38 Vacuum-Assisted Delivery Explained

13:54 Vacuum Procedure Timing Guidelines

16:10 Assessing Delivery Options and Pelvic Adequacy

19:26 Challenges in C-section Deliveries

23:15 Forcep Use in Obstetrics

25:50 “Consent Challenges in Childbirth Decisions”

31:43 Forceps vs. Vacuum Delivery Risks

33:16 Birthing Risks: Maternal and Fetal

37:24 Considerations for Assisted Vaginal Delivery

39:56 Navigating Birth Plan Conversations

44:07 Normalize Asking for Help

46:57 Flexible Tubing Revolutionizes Vacuum Use

49:15 Flexible Neck Vacuum for Childbirth

Keypoints:

• Assisted deliveries involve using tools like vacuums or forceps to help a baby out during vaginal birth, usually when there’s exhaustion, fetal distress, or a tricky position.
• The difference between forceps (which look like fancy salad tongs) and vacuum devices (like the KiwiVac) was explained—with forceps generally having a higher risk for maternal tearing, while vacuums can be safer for the mother but have their own set of risks for baby.
• Forceps use is becoming rare in the US, and many younger doctors are not trained in both tools; most providers specialize in one over the other.
• The vacuum method, such as the KiwiVac, doesn’t just involve pulling—the device helps rotate and flex the baby’s head to ease passage through the pelvis, working in tandem with the mother’s pushing effort.
• Not every provider can use both vacuums and forceps, and midwives in the US generally use vacuums regionally; outside the US, like in Europe, midwives may use vacuums more routinely.
• Assisted deliveries make up less than 5% of births, so most people will not need them, but knowing about the process can reduce fear if the situation arises.
• Before offering assisted delivery, doctors must ensure the baby is low enough, the mother’s pelvis is adequate, and water is broken—these tools can’t compensate for a truly “stuck” baby or incomplete dilation.
• Vacuums and sometimes forceps can even be used during C-sections if the baby is deeply engaged or in an awkward position, to help bring the baby up through the uterine incision.
• Consent and clear communication are vital—sometimes decisions have to be made quickly, so it helps when patients have discussed these possibilities in advance with their providers.
• The episode emphasized not to fear assisted deliveries—they’re tools to reduce C-sections and make births safer when used by skilled, well-trained professionals, and advances like the KiwiVac improve outcomes for both moms and babies.

Producer: Drew Erickson

[00:00:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 260, we are talking about assisted deliveries. We’re gonna talk about what those are. We’ve got a doctor coming on, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:08] Hi, I’m Hilary, a Serial over Complicator. I’m also a nurse mom to three and the curly head behind pulling curls and the pregnancy nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with pregnancy and parenting untangled the Pulling Curls podcast.​

[00:00:44] I wanna introduce today’s guest. She, this is actually her second time on the podcast. She is a board certified OBGYN for 14, maybe 15 now years in Oklahoma. She’s passionate about education and she actually teaches other doctors how to use the vacuum. I wanna introduce today’s guest, Dr. Tori O’Daniel.

[00:01:02] Hey Tori, welcome back to the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:01:04] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Thank you. I’m excited.

[00:01:06] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, guys, this is a thing I get a lot. People don’t really understand like how assisted deliveries work. And so I’m excited to have a real doctor here today because the nurses do not, we, we just hand things. We just hand things to the provider and then they do all the work.

[00:01:21] So I think this is gonna be really helpful you for you guys to understand them. Tori actually works for Laborie and this podcast is actually sponsored by Laborie. And the Kiwi complete vacuum system delivery. It is used globally. In fact, I’ve used it myself, well as the nurse, and it’s designed to give control back to the physician. Whatever your preference or needs are, the Kiwi family of products offers a vacuum to meet them. And I would agree. I was a nurse when Kiwi started, like being a thing. Like I remember, before, when I used to pump up the vacuum, I wasn’t a fan of that part. So it is so nice that we are advancing technology. ’cause I gotta say, as a labor and delivery nurse, there’s a lot of things that are exactly the same as when Hilary started day one in 2001.

[00:02:01] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. I could not agree more with that. So it’s always fun to see an evolution of product that is providing better healthcare for our patients. So I couldn’t agree more, and I was right at the beginning of my training when I saw somebody, pump the vacuum from behind me and that, that was a bit much for me. So I’m glad that we switched over.

[00:02:16] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. So first off, we’ll talk more about like how these different vacuum systems work, but what is an assisted delivery? A lot of people are like, well, aren’t we like everyone? Unless you’re free birthing at home, which I’m not a fan of. If you’re a free birther, this isn’t the podcast for you.

[00:02:30] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah.

[00:02:30] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: An assisted delivery means that we’re helping you through what, Tori?

[00:02:33] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah, so I mean, you could look at this a couple of different ways. Honestly, an assisted delivery is trying to get this baby to do what we would love it to do naturally. And the baby is, um, known to go through what we call the cardinal movements of labor, which essentially tries to get the baby to flex or put its head straight down and to get in this position, which we call oa.

[00:02:54] So the back of the head is facing the mom’s interior body and trying to get the smallest diameter to come the pelvis. The thing about that is that some babies are stubborn and they don’t want to do that. And patients have all different shapes and sizes of pelvic boney structure and so sometimes we don’t have the best position of the baby.

[00:03:12] So assisted can be a lot of different options. We move patients around to try to get this baby to do what it needs to do. As obstetricians or midwives, we can put our hand inside and try to get the baby to maneuver or rotate, as we like to call it, or we have two options for an assisted vaginal delivery with either a vacuum system or Forceps. And really the concept with those two things is that you’re trying to get this baby to rotate, to get the smallest diameter to come through the pelvis while the patient is pushing, and then you provide traction with either forceps or with a vacuum to be able to assist in that rotation and pull while they push.

[00:03:51] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. First off, can a midwife use vacuums or forceps most across the board in general?

[00:03:56] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: So I would say that really depends on the region. In Europe, midwives are routinely using vacuums. I don’t know about

[00:04:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Oh.

[00:04:03] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: forceps but I know they are routinely using vacuums. and as long as they’re well-trained, really we’re encouraging any provider to be able to use, a vacuum assisted vaginal delivery option in the United States.

[00:04:14] That is also very, very regional, but there are. Much fewer regions that are allowing midwives to do a vacuum assisted vaginal delivery. Some of the areas that we previously talked on our, other podcast about, deserts where you don’t have access to obstetricians, the midwives are trained in, kinda outlet vacuum deliveries to be able to have options to provide safe care for their patients.

[00:04:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. and also family practice, like some of our family practice doctors when I worked with them, were able to use vacuums or forceps or sometimes they had to call in an OB to come do those things. Just so you guys know, sometimes that’s an advanced level of care that they’re just not trained to do. So I think that’s important to know. Midwives always have like an upgrade of care. The uncertified nurse midwife always has an OB that they can call in to come back them up for that type of a delivery.

[00:04:58] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yep, exactly.

[00:04:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. What would you call the difference between like, okay, so forceps look like salad tongs. If you’re listening just with your ears.

[00:05:06] If you’re not listening with your ears or you’re listening with your eyeballs, then I will put, a picture of what forceps look like, but they basically look like very fancy, very expensive. I’m sure. Salad tongs.

[00:05:16] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yes,

[00:05:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:05:17] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: And there are a lot of different shapes and sizes of forceps because depending on what your patient is presenting to you with, you want different sizes, and so there are some, that are smaller for, smaller infants. There’s also some that are a little bit more elongated for those heads that have had a lot of molding for an unmolded head that kind of came down quickly, but still needing some assistance. we would have one that’s a little bit, more rounded. So the obstetrician, midwife and or, a family practice doc that if they’re trained to know how to do this, and again, midwives are typically trained in vacuum over forcep, but you would know which one that you would prefer. There’s actually also, forceps for a breach delivery if in fact you are, Trained to do breach delivery with something called Piper Forceps. And they’re shaped differently ’cause the baby’s coming out, in a totally different direction. And so the, the those little salad tongs that you described have to go on the head in a different way, in a safe method.

[00:06:07] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. and are most doctors trained in both? Like, I’ve probably seen two doctors in my life that were good with vacuum and forceps. I feel like either they do one or the other. What do you think?

[00:06:17] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah, so if you look statistically what’s happening with assisted vaginal delivery across the United States, they’re both less than 5% and about three and a half to 4% vacuum assisted vaginal deliveries. And then forceps, unfortunately, are almost extinct. It’s like in some in some places, not at all, and in others 0.5 to 1%. And that’s unfortunate because if you’re not getting trained in both options, then you have less opportunity to provide people who could be appropriate candidates for assisted vaginal delivery. So back to your original question. No, unfortunately, I find that it’s very rare that people are trained in both.

[00:06:53] I was really fortunate to have, attendings in my residency that knew how to do forceps and some that did vacuum, and so I just hounded my, my attendings that knew how to do forceps and I was taught how to do both. So I, I do both and I think that it actually taught me so much more about why assisted vaginal deliveries work and how they physiologically rotate the baby and what kind of additional force that you need to be able to provide that traction. and it’s important to know both skillset. There’s a huge misnomer that forceps have kind of gone out of practice ’cause they’re so much more difficult to learn. And I, I really couldn’t think that that’s farther from the truth. You have to know how to use them both well. To use either of those devices, but no, most people are either trained in forceps and think the vacuum is not something they want to do, or they’re trained in vacuum and never have even seen a forcep, let alone watched a, a forcep assisted vaginal delivery.

[00:07:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, I a lot of times have people say, oh, which should I ask for? And I am always like, whichever one your doctor is good at using. Because if they’re, again, not trained in how to do a forceps, you definitely don’t want them sticking the salad tongs in you.

[00:07:57] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: absolutely, I don’t want people to be using instruments and devices that they are not well-trained, to use. But I love being able to offer a patient either option and I may, Choose one over the other based on what I’m being presented with. When I first started using vacuum, I did not completely understand the beauty of the rotation that the vacuum provides.

[00:08:18] And then I learned really well how the vacuum works, and I know that it helps reinstitute those cardinal movements of labor and help rotate the baby. And so I know I can rotate a baby with delivery, with vacuum or forceps, and if a patient provides me, um, an opportunity as a candidate. For either one, then I have the opportunity to use either, and so I’m extremely grateful for knowing how to use both.

[00:08:41] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, you are a woodland fairy. Okay, Tori.

[00:08:43] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah, I honestly think as I’m stubborn, I knew I was gonna go practice in a really rural area, in Oklahoma, and I just wanted to have all of the tools that I could in my tool belt. and so I, I’m grateful, but I think that whenever we go train, ’cause we train, I train, to teach, vacuum assisted vaginal delivery, I will not stop advocating for making sure people get the opportunity to learn both if they can.

[00:09:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That’s amazing. I was just thinking that we wanna emphasize what a vacuum can do. We talked about it a little bit at the beginning. I think a lot of people think it’s just like us just yanking down on that baby,

[00:09:12] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yep.

[00:09:13] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: it can be used to turn the baby, which is not something you really need to know.

[00:09:17] Babies, a lot of times they’ll do it on themselves, but a lot of times they don’t because babies are the worst. And sometimes it is pulling and, and helping a mom. So, a lot of times the doctors will give the mom like a choice. Like at the end where they’re just not pushing very well. You know, you’re in your fourth hour of pushing, as you can imagine, as somebody who does YouTube workout videos, at the very end, I am done.

[00:09:37] I am not gonna be doing burpees on those last 10 minutes of the workout. Right. And that’s how it is. When you push, sometimes you’re like, I am done. I can’t help push anymore. And of course, we also need you to be pushing. A lot of times we’re like, oh, the doctor’s just doing all the work. Absolutely not.

[00:09:52] You are still doing your work as well.

[00:09:53] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. so I think you hit the nail on the head about. The point or the purpose and the mechanism of a vacuum is to reinstitute the cardinal movements of labor that occur with traction. Right. So traction helps that because, and I have actually a fetal head, so don’t, don’t be shocked that there’s no baby, there’s just a, a fetal head. and then there’s the vacuum. So for those of you looking, obviously this is the front of the head. This is the back of the head, and this is that

[00:10:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So This is a podcast you’re gonna wanna watch on YouTube. So the podcast will be on YouTube also. Tori is showing us a baby head, just so you’re aware if you’re just got me in your ear holes. Hello.

[00:10:29] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Thank you for clarifying. I forgot that people are sometimes just listening, but this is really a good visual that I think that people often miss when learning. And I also go through this with nurses at my facility and where we train to walk them through understanding. ’cause as Hilary mentioned, you’re not the one using the vacuum, but I genuinely want you to understand how this vacuum works. Because if a baby is not coming down directly OA with this fontanel or that posterior fontanel, that posterior soft box coming down this way and then out, and it might be turned to one side or it might be transverse or it might be what we call sunny side up or op. We really need that baby to flex and then rotate, right? So the vacuum goes right along that sagal suture just anterior to that posterior fontella or that soft spot. And when you pull through the vagina, so this right here is that vaginal canal, and when I pull down it gets this baby because of the spot. Like the physics guys, we gotta go back to what we learned in undergrad and in grad school.

[00:11:31] If you went there, I hated physics, but you have to know this and understand this flexes. And then if your baby is not positioned as you’re pulling down, it flexes and rotates the baby to get the smallest diameter to come through the pelvis. Now the key to this is that pulling down with this system actually flexes and auto rotates that baby with the pulling down mechanism ’cause it uses the vaginal canal like a pulley system. So we don’t pull up, we don’t do a ton of different movements. With the vacuum, you pull down and then towards yourself, and then that gets that baby to get flexed and then come underneath that pubic bone like it would have done without assistance. And so it is traction, but it’s assisted traction.

[00:12:14] So I still need maternal effort. This system is allowing that rotation to get the smallest diameter. So I should have. The least amount of effort that I should need with traction and Mom to get the baby delivered. It’s not just about traction or pulling it out. I’ve heard that sort of like tow truck mentality.

[00:12:30] I’ve had patients cannot, can you just do this for me? And whether I’m using forceps or vacuum, I say, no, I’m gonna help you. I’m gonna assist, but I really need you to give me your effort. So this is a combined effort that I’m providing traction while rotating and you’re pushing for me.

[00:12:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, you know, I just realized we didn’t really talk about how the vacuum works. Like people are thinking we’re like throwing up our Dyson in there. That is not the case. So it is just a real gentle type suction cup. It looks like if you’re not watching, it looks like a little bagel

[00:13:00] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: yep.

[00:13:01] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: on that has a little bit of gentle suction, that they put on the baby’s head.

[00:13:04] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yep, it goes right here on that baby’s head, and then you’re, the afterward you’re gonna see what I call a little hickey. The formal word for that is a chinon, and that’s because you’re pulling or creating, um, suction on the baby’s head. So it creates a little edema. It pulls some of that fluid into the scalp, and that usually will go away.

[00:13:22] That’s like a hickey slash bruise that goes away within a day or so.

[00:13:25] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and the doctors have like a little hand pump. They’re not, again, turning on their Dyson. They have a little hand pump that they squeeze that gets it to the right, like there’s a green spot that you’re like in the clear that this is when you can pull, and then they release it between pushes to just like minimal suction.

[00:13:40] So it’ll stay on. Right. Because we don’t wanna have to find the spot.

[00:13:43] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Nope,

[00:13:44] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: don’t?

[00:13:44] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: No, I love that you said that. because we don’t, so we were originally trained several years ago, decade and a half ago or so, to release the vacuum in between. But the recommended time for a vacuum is about 15 to 20 minutes in length of your procedure.

[00:13:58] And so even when she’s not. Pushing. You do not release vacuum. You just don’t provide traction. So you leave that on so that it

[00:14:04] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay.

[00:14:04] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: slip off of your spot. Because this placement, which is why we teach this method, is that this placement and getting accurately placed over the spot is super important to get that flexion and then rotation into that smallest diameter plane in your pelvis, and you don’t wanna release the suction in between those pushes.

[00:14:23] So Let’s say the patient is pushed, three different times in one contraction. Contraction goes away. The patient feels the contraction goes away, or we can see the contraction goes away, and then we just sit. Everybody takes a deep breath and the contraction builds. Patient goes to push again, and then we provide the traction. The other thing is that I put my hand, just my finger and my thumb inside the vagina so that I can put my finger on the baby’s scalp and then my thumb is on the center of that cup so I can feel this flexion. And then I can also feel descent of the baby. And then my thumb provides counter pressure.

[00:14:55] ’cause you talked about that cup releasing or or letting go, which is called a pop off. And we don’t. Want to get a pop-off, that’s not our preference. It’s not a safety feature of the device, and so we wanna make sure we can decrease that chance of having a pop-off when the patient is pushing.

[00:15:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And one of the most important things that we’re all watching for when we’re using a vacuum is that the baby is actually descending because of course we don’t wanna try and bring a baby through a birth canal that will not fit.

[00:15:20] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:21] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: so we wanna make sure that the baby is descending. The nurse and the provider are both watching for that, and we have to chart it like there is a lot of charting that the nurse somehow, I don’t know why. Even though I don’t touch the vacuum at all, that we still have to chart as we’re watching the doctor do the vacuum.

[00:15:35] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. And you actually brought up a great point, you know, when you were offering, a patient the option of an assisted vaginal delivery. There are some prerequisites for me to go through and I’m kind of always assessing whether or not that’s gonna be needed. I like to go worst case scenario in my head, and then I tell the patient, Hey.

[00:15:53] This is how we plan to go through the delivery process. I get them to ask me questions. We kind of go through their birth plan with me to tell me what their options and suggestions are, and then I say, you know, if this is gonna happen, if X, y, Z happens, then I will offer you. These two options and I’d like to do that before we really get into the thick of labor so it’s not crisis moment. And then I can just ward off evil juju like I call it. And I go through what the possibilities are. And one of the prerequisites is that I need to assume that your pelvis is adequate for this baby. I either have a recent ultrasound that gives me a weight that I think it is, or I can Leopold and feel how big the baby is.

[00:16:29] I can assess the patient’s. Pelvis and make sure that I feel like we’ve got an adequate pelvis to deliver so that I know that I feel comfortable that a baby is gonna come out. I cannot predict all shoulder dystocia. That’s not the way that this works. Although I would love if we could do that, but I have to assume that the baby’s gonna be able to come out and that I’m not doing exactly what you said, like pulling a too big baby to come through the pelvis.

[00:16:50] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Super smart, and I love that you go over it in advance. Sometimes I wonder if providers are doing that in the office because they never go over it in advance in general that I’ve ever seen because Tori is a woodland fairy.

[00:17:01] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Well, I’m also a hospitalist, so I don’t get the .

[00:17:03] benefit of doing this in the clinic. I think a lot of my colleagues go over these things through the prenatal process, just to kind of say closer towards the end of third trimester, Hey, this, this might be an option. And I don’t always get the benefit either, because sometimes as a hospitalist, I get called into an emergency and I.

[00:17:18] Literally have just met the patient and the baby’s heart tone are down, you know, so indications for assisted vaginal delivery are maternal exhaustion, like you mentioned. The patient is exhausted. We’ve been pushing, for quite some time, and we’re just not getting a delivery, fetal indications where if my heart tone go down and I need to expedite that process. That expedites the conversation. And so I consent a patient for this option, and then once it’s all said and done, I stay and then I just reiterate what just happened, right? Because if that happens really, really fast for them and then all of a sudden they’re like. I don’t even know what just happened to me in all of that. I stay afterward and say, Hey, everything’s good. Your baby’s good. You’re good. Let me just review what we, what we just did, and then if I get the chance, I’ll go back the next day too and just say, do you have any questions about any of that? Because this is, you know, sort of black out patient blacks out for a second with all of that crisis, and so I wanna make sure that they don’t start thinking about it afterward and then have questions they didn’t get a chance to ask.

[00:18:18] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and if your doctor is not the woodland fairy that Tori is, you can always ask those questions. Especially even if you think of them in postpartum and postpartum. Nurses don’t know a whole lot about vacuums and forceps, but they can always call up a labor nurse to address your concerns. Who can just basically say why it was used?

[00:18:34] You know, maybe your labor nurse is still there, maybe she’s not, but we have a basic idea of why it’s used, what to watch for, things like that. I did wanna mention that we sometimes use the vacuum in c-sections, and a lot of people are shocked by that one. Some providers use ’em more often than others I find. But if the baby is really like low in the pelvis or the head’s sort of wonky, which is a very technical term, baby’s head was wonky,

[00:18:54] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Uhhuh.

[00:18:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: a lot of times they’ll use the vacuum to kind of pull baby up out of the pelvis.

[00:18:59] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yes, and wonky. I love that word. I also like, kitty wampus. I use kitty wampus in cat corner and all kinds of weird things, but yes. Okay. So you can use forceps or a vacuum in, a c-section. And again, depending on what you’re trained and what your comfort level is. You know, there are two issues with babies coming out in a c-section.

[00:19:17] one is that it’s been, they’ve been pushing for a while and the baby is really, really impacted or or engaged into that pelvis. And then the other one is a is a patient that may have had a scheduled section, unlabored, and those babies’ heads are not molded. It wasn’t attempting to come down into the pelvis.

[00:19:36] And so it’s just beautifully round head, which some would assume would be easier to deliver. But sometimes those stinkers just love hanging out in the uterus and they’re round and they’re floating. There’s a lot of amniotic fluid and it’s hard to get the baby to come. So you have an incision, and again, I’m just showing for those of you that are listening, I’m showing this baby’s head.

[00:19:54] But if you have a baby coming through the incision, I’m doing the same thing where I’m putting my hand underneath and lifting it so that the smallest diameter is coming up through the incision while my assistant is giving some gentle pressure on the top of the uterus to help get that baby to come out. If the baby’s head is really round and molded, and I cannot get it to come up into the, the incision or, I’m sorry, not molded, or if it’s really molded in the pelvis and I have to get it to come up to come into the incision, occasionally an assisted c-section delivery occurs because the vacuum, I can put the vacuum, on the baby and pull straight up and it gets that smallest diameter to come through.

[00:20:31] Or I could, if it’s like this and just not popping up, I could slide a forcep blade and a forcep blade and pull up to come out. Sometimes, when they’re really engaged, I have to get my hand deep into the pelvis to pull or disengage that suction, and then I can’t get it to flex to come up. So the assisted c-section deliveries occur, but for different reasons.

[00:20:51] I’m not asking the patient to give me that maternal effort, right? ’cause they’re, they have a spinal or an epidural, that this really helps get the smallest diameter to come through that incision.

[00:20:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And a lot of times where people are like, well, just enlarge the incision, but your uterus is actually only a certain amount, so it’s not like a regular surgery where we could just cut you open like a magician. We only have so much room that we can cut, which is confusing when you see on the skin where they could have made it larger, but your uterus only has so much room for us to get into, so that’s why we sometimes use it.

[00:21:18] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: it’s actually, it’s not. I mean, sometimes, sometimes it’s about the incision size, but it really is more about trying to get the baby into a position that creates the best delivery because babies know, they intuitively know that they’re trying to get the smallest diameter.

[00:21:37] I have no idea how that works. That’s way bigger than than me. It’s lovely, but they know to do this. And when I’m trying to get it and I just can’t get it to flex, for whatever reason, the assisted delivery, whichever device I’m using, gets the smallest diameter up there that maybe my hand can’t do for whatever reason in that scenario.

[00:21:56] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. By the way, I extra love the Kiwi vac for C-section assisted deliveries because when I was trying to like not get in the field, but also use the pump and, and listen to the doctor, it was miserable. So I’m so glad we have new things.

[00:22:07] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: That’s awesome. I love that.

[00:22:08] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I also wanted to mention there might be people listening to this podcast who have already had their baby that are like, well, I couldn’t get, you know, failure to progress. Like they can’t push the baby low enough. And they’re wondering in their minds, maybe the doctor could have just used a vacuum and I could have avoided a C-section.

[00:22:22] And I don’t want you to feel like that is usually ever a, a thing. If you are pushing, a baby’s not descending and we’re just thinking maybe your pelvis is too small. We, that is not a point that we would use a vacuum or a forceps. Because we could get into trouble.

[00:22:34] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. You have to have some prerequisites, so your water has to be broken. We like to have your bladder emptied. we need to make sure that your baby is engaged in your pelvis and we describe engagement in your pelvis in like, increments, centimeter increments. And if you are past this bony process in the patient’s pelvis, the baby is past that and it’s plus two.

[00:22:56] The way do we describe how far down the baby is in your pelvis and it’s plus two or greater than you’re a candidate for us to use this vacuum assisted vaginal delivery. Now, if you go back and read historically, if you have nothing better to do with your time and read about forcep evaluation and sort of evolution. They did do some high and what we call mid forceps, where that station could have been a little bit higher. That’s not typically performed now for lots of reasons, but partially because we’re trying to provide the best care with the least amount of harm. And so exactly what you just said, Hilary, we wanna make sure the baby is showing us signs that it can come down and out.

[00:23:32] It’s just some combination isn’t working. And if I can get the baby to rotate and give a little effort while the patient is pushing. I want to do that. So bladder emptied, your cervix has to be completely dilated. So if your failure to progress because you’ve got stuck at seven centimeters, neither one of these instruments are offered for you. I have to have an engaged baby down in that pelvis, and I have to assume that the pelvis is thick enough for this baby to come out. And I do that by either knowing the estimated fetal weight or I have done Leopolds and I know that.

[00:24:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And Leopolds is where they just like manhandle you on your belly in case people are like, oh, that’s like a special thing.

[00:24:08] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah, it’s like a guesstimation where I do this little trickery, this little trickery to, to make sure I can guess how much I think, that your baby is. And again, I think we talked about this before, but I can’t predict shoulder dystocia any better than anybody else can. And sometimes small babies have shoulder dystocia.

[00:24:25] And just to reiterate, shoulder dystocia is where that shoulders of the baby. So this diameter I’m just showing from one shoulder to the next is bigger or gets stuck in that pelvis. And so my. Top shoulder, my anterior shoulder gets stuck on the mom’s pubic bone and it won’t come out. And so sometimes small, babies, have this issue if the pelvis is shaped in a certain way or if the, the maternal pelvis is just smaller, that happens.

[00:24:49] So we cannot predict that all the time. But you clearly don’t want that to be an assumption that you’ve got a really large baby. For example, patients who have diabetes, and I know that their babies are going to be big, they also have extra fatty deposits, in that fatty tissue of those babies.

[00:25:04] And so those babies tend to have more dystocias even at the same size of, patients who do not have maternal diabetes.

[00:25:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. So there’s a lot of things we’re considering before we use the vacuum. I don’t wanna ever want you to be like, oh, they should have used a vacuum. I could have avoided a c-section. That, that’s not usually the case.

[00:25:18] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely.

[00:25:19] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And the way we’re talking, we’re like every delivery gets a vacuum or forceps, but I wanna remind you guys, you said at the beginning, this is about 5% of deliveries, but it’s enough that it’s awesome to know about so that you’re not caught off guard when your doctor’s like, Hey, I, what do you think about forceps?

[00:25:33] I don’t know if you would know this, Tori, ’cause you probably don’t see a lot of providers asking, but do you think they give informed consent really well with vacuums or forceps?

[00:25:41] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: I think that, that’s a loaded question, right?? I think that, I think people intend to consent people, and meet them where they’re at. And so you wanna inform somebody as much as they can be informed to allow them to make an educated decision with you. But. You don’t wanna scare them and make them feel like a c-section is just the better option ’cause there are risks with an assisted delivery. And let’s be frank, right? a delivery, a vaginal delivery is risky regardless of how we look at it. Whether it happens without any assistant with plus or minus an epidural, plus or minus medication, it’s still a very risky thing that we go through.

[00:26:16] And so that’s a complicated question for me because I feel like people consent. But maybe not consent and go through all of the details because that seems so scary. And I try to make sure that what I’m using, the verbiage that I’m using, the words that I’m trying to say to explain what can happen is meeting a patient where they’re at.

[00:26:39] So I’m not using these words that are like, sure. Yeah. Okay. And they have no idea what I’m actually saying could happen. And so I don’t sugarcoat it. I mean, I say a C-section is an option, and these are the risks that come with that. And a vacuum. These are the risks that come with that. And the forcep, these are the risks that come with that.

[00:26:55] And then I also tell them if I have a preference based on how they’re presenting to me, and I say I would, I would prefer to use a forcep on you. And this is why I still say you’re still a candidate for a vacuum if you prefer one over the other. So.

[00:27:07] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That’s awesome. and hopefully your provider’s going over this in the office, they should do things like, you might end up getting blood, you might need forceps or a vacuum. Like there are some very things that we do kind of just like in the moment, because a lot of times we don’t have 30 minutes to talk about should we use a vacuum.

[00:27:22] You know, it’s something that’s being done. Sometimes very quickly, if baby’s heart rate’s going down, sometimes it’s like, we need the vacuum, we need it now. We need to go. and in those cases, you, hopefully you’ve had that discussion in the provider’s office and you, and you trust your provider. I mean, hope everybody trusts their provider, although it can be tricky. I get it.

[00:27:37] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah.

[00:27:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:27:38] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah. and so yeah, I think people intend to consent well. I think making sure that you consent and then discuss and then debrief and have conversations when it’s not in the heat of the moment. when it’s the heat of the moment, I. I really dial down to what I feel like is the most important conversation.

[00:27:55] Your baby is at risk because of X, Y, Z. Heart tones are down. I have two options. These are my options. These are my risk with these options, and I need you to tell me right now what you’d like to do, which is so hard for me to say because somebody’s trying. They’re like. I don’t know. What do you think that I should do? And if I have a preference either way, of course I say that if they’re not a candidate, I say, I’m so sorry. I do not feel comfortable offering you this because X, Y, z my recommendation is a C-section. You know, I mean, I just feel like everybody provides different, clinical scenarios to you, which is what makes obstetricians as fun and as, fear-based as we are.

[00:28:30] Because we, there’s a lot of educated fear that comes with, we know, right? You know. You know, as a labor and delivery nurse, it is good when it’s good and it is not good when it’s not good.

[00:28:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I think a lot of people learn about forceps or vacuums and they’re like, well, those sound really barbaric. But I want you guys to realize that the reason we have these is to prevent a C-section. And most people that come into labor and delivery wanna do a large variety of things to try and prevent a C-section, including the staff, because we ultimately feel

[00:28:55] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely.

[00:28:56] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: that either a vacuum or a forceps when used appropriately by trained staff is less risky than having a C-section.

[00:29:03] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Mm-hmm. and again, if you go back and look at what we offer in the United States, a lot of places don’t even offer a trial of labor after a C-section. So if I can safely avoid that first C-section and offer people who are candidates for an assisted vaginal delivery safely, absolutely. I mean, this is going to help prevent long term possibility or risks. If I can avoid that first C-section. I am not gonna do that at all costs, though. I’m a very, very like, practical person If you have to have a C-section, because that is what has been presented to us, that doesn’t mean you’re damned for life. Right? And I don’t mean to say that harshly.

[00:29:41] I just, c-sections are not a bad word. It’s just. I would love to be able to allow us to get through a vaginal delivery, if you’re an appropriate candidate, your baby is cooperating. All of those things that I say, and if I have to do a c-section, we can work through that too. You know, I love how you empower people to know and to ask questions.

[00:30:00] Just ask questions like, if anybody is getting defensive with you, that should be a little bit of a red flag. if they’re comfortable with what they’re doing, they should be able to converse and have a conversation with you about it. For sure.

[00:30:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Okay. So fun fact, Hilary had a forceps delivery on my first baby. So my first baby was born in 2000.

[00:30:15] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: okay.

[00:30:16] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I knew what forceps were ’cause I went to nursing school and I had done labor and delivery as a capstone. Didn’t work labor and delivery though at that point in time. I was with the old people.

[00:30:23] Literally thought, I mean. When you’re, you’re kind of like sugarcoating it. Like we just apply a little pressure. I thought he was gonna hurl me across the room. It was a point in time where my baby’s heart rate was down. I could tell that we were having decels. I knew what decels were. And he, old guy, by the way, I think he also delivered, me.

[00:30:40] So not a young fella,

[00:30:41] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Okay.

[00:30:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: came in, you know, and it was one of those situations where they couldn’t get the heart rate to come up. He said, we need, this is to avoid a C-section. And just like pulled the heck outta that baby. And side note, you can still feel the forcep mark on his head, but he is graduated college.

[00:30:56] He has a degree in computer science. You know, at the time I was kind of like, well, this, this could be a problem. And totally functioning human being. He is a boy that’s 25. So not fully functioning, but pretty darn functioning. So that was my, um, that was my. Thing with forceps. I believe he did go through the risks and the benefits, although I literally have no idea because it was very quickly and he had him out.

[00:31:18] He was one of those doctors who was super trained in forceps, um, and had him out very quickly. So that’s what happened with Hilary. But I do wanna talk a little bit about the risks and the benefits. Well, we’ve talked about the benefits, but what are the, some of the risks with, forceps or vacuum? ’cause I think they’re pretty well, a little bit different.

[00:31:33] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah. there are some similarities and then there are some differences. And I think the first difference that people associate between risks for forceps with vacuum is that the forcep needs to go, like you just said, those little salad tongs, it goes around the baby’s head. So if I were a forcep, I’m showing. Sort of where my, my hands, are coming around the baby’s head to sort of sit right on here and be able to get the baby to come through. That in inadvertently widens the diameter of what is having to come through the pelvis because I now not only have the baby’s head, but I also have those blades.

[00:32:08] And those blades are thin, they still widen the diameter of what’s coming through. And so you have maternal risks with the, forceps that can cause, vaginal lacerations or what we call sulcus tears. You can also have, um, a tear on the posterior side, like right where we think of where we have an episiotomy, it can tear. And that tear then can go into, um, near your rectum, that’s called a fourth degree tear. That can have longer term sequelae or long-term Side effects.

[00:32:37] That’s your girl right here. Right here. Fourth degree, still functioning. Lot of para, a lot of, pelvic floor.

[00:32:43] doing pelvic

[00:32:44] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: gotta do your pelvic floor physical therapy. When you get one of those,

[00:32:46] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: those, those, pelvic floor physical therapists. ’cause man, they are really like, they’re in the trenches with us, making sure the patients are doing well. But that’s a risk. And you could still have a fourth degree having a regular without assisted vaginal delivery, having a vacuum assisted vaginal delivery. But your risk with forceps is higher because it’s increasing the diameter. When you put a vacuum on a baby. You can see that this is not increasing the diameter of what’s coming out of the vagina, and so this device does not widen that.

[00:33:15] So you don’t have what I consider those maternal risks. And I just say that, that my maternal risk with forcep is more sulcus, vaginal. Up into the urethra and then posterior or rectal, tears, those fourth degree tears. You still can have risks, to the baby, with forceps and vacuum. And that is a skull fracture or tearing or shearing of the blood vessels that are in, those like in between the, the scalp and the skull, and that’s called a cephalic hematoma or a subgaleal hemorrhage. You do have a slightly higher risk with a vacuum for those fetal scalp, vessel lacerations. And then you can have, you can have a scalp laceration if this. Kind of shears off of the scalp.

[00:33:54] And that’s more of like a skin abrasion or a cut in the skin. Those vessel tears that cause that bleeding, those can be more significant. The ceal hematoma, it’s underneath the skin in a way that it can stop because of the suture lines of the baby. And a subgaleal hemorrhage is something that you can have more bleeding ’cause it can kind of extend over the scalp.

[00:34:16] And so those are risks with either one, but the fetal risks are slightly more with, a vacuum. And I counsel people that. Can people have a scalp, I mean a, cephalohematoma or a subgaleal hemorrhage without assisted vaginal delivery? The answer is yes. It’s just not as frequent. So if you look across, the United States, the subgaleal hemorrhage risk for vacuum assisted vaginal delivery is about 4.2, 4.3%.

[00:34:44] So there is some risk with that.

[00:34:45] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And even, even if you don’t see, a lot of times there is just a little bruising, like you said, a hickey. but whatever you’re seeing on your baby, if you have any questions after an assisted delivery, please ask because we as nurses see it enough that we’re not like, oh my gosh, I don’t know what that is.

[00:35:00] No, we know what it is and we know when it’s a problem and we need to call like a provider.

[00:35:04] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. And forceps can get that bruising, like right where the blades are sort of lying on the bony process of your cheek. You can have a little forcep bruise from that. You can have that chinon or hickey. And we, at our institution and what we counsel and, tell people is that you should let pediatrics know.

[00:35:18] If you use an assisted vaginal delivery, let them know. You assess. They always look if they’re concerned about anything, then baby would get imaging and things like that.

[00:35:25] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And before, when you mentioned the blades of the forceps, that’s just a fun word we use for the salad tongs. There’s nothing sharp on the forceps. It’s all rounded. Nobody could get cut by the actual forcep blade. We just, we just use fun words at the hospital.

[00:35:38] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Thank you for clarifying. There is nothing sharp going in your vagina. It’s this nice rounded smooth, salad tong as she described it. And that’s really what it looks like. ’cause a big salad tong.

[00:35:48] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, so Tori, what would you say to people who are pregnant and are like, sort of freaking out maybe a little bit with this conversation. Again. First off, only 5% of deliveries and I it does it happen more on your first baby? ’cause mine, it was my first baby. Second baby’s third baby. Easier.

[00:36:02] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: and I don’t have the exact stats on that, but certainly anecdotally it does. And part of that is because, you’ve never had something that large come through your pelvis, right? So you’re trying to figure out how to push a baby out and, your pelvis has been new to that. and the other ones are, you know, a multip or somebody who’s had babies before still can have an assisted vaginal delivery, and that may just be either because of that fetal distress that we talked about, if something occurred. And or if the baby is malpositioned and just not coming down in the pelvis in the right way.

[00:36:28] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, babies can get wonky at any stage

[00:36:30] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: love,

[00:36:31] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: children can get wonky.

[00:36:32] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: your, I love your, adjectives. Wonky is exactly what I say to people. I’m like, it’s just coming down their kitty wampus. I don’t know what’s, you know, I’ve tried to rotate, maneuver the nurse. We’ve tried to use the peanut ball and switch. It’s just not coming down. So

[00:36:43] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, sometimes I’ve sat down to chart, you know, in your nurse’s notes and you’re like, fetal head feels real wonky. I’m like, I don’t know how to say that. Malposition, I guess

[00:36:53] not as fun.

[00:36:53] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: for sure.

[00:36:54] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay, so if you’re freaking out, first off, they don’t happen very often.

[00:36:57] Second of all, talk with your provider in your office.

[00:37:00] This isn’t something that like is taboo topic to talk. I mean, I probably wouldn’t talk to ’em about your 12 week appointment about forceps and vacuum, but if you’re in your third trimester, I think it’s, you know, it’s good to say, Hey, which do you usually use? Because again, most providers only use one. And, do you have anything you wanna tell me about it?

[00:37:15] Right?

[00:37:15] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: And I think that asking is there anything that would encourage you to use one or the other if they know how to use both? And is there anything that would prevent me from being a candidate for this? So again, if my patient is, a type one, type two diabetic, and the baby is huge, I would say to them in their prenatal period. Hey, we, uh, you know, we’re gonna go through this delivery and there are options if I have any concerns towards the end of your delivery. One of them is assisted vaginal delivery. Unfortunately, in your case, I would not feel comfortable offering you that because we’re already a little concerned about the size of your baby, and I don’t wanna make that worse.

[00:37:48] And then the other thing is that talking with your physician about, you know. When would you choose to try it? And then you stop doing it if it’s not working? You have to get a physician who is really, really comfortable knowing when it is not working, and part of that assisting hand with a vacuum.

[00:38:04] And part of that feel with forceps is knowing I have placed this, I have attempted, and I’m not feeling a budge. If I put a vacuum on and I don’t feel any descent or flexion, I say to the patient, I stop. I take the vacuum off and I say. is not working. I gave it a valid effort. I don’t wanna make things more difficult in your C-section, and this is why.

[00:38:25] And then the second part of that is make sure that they’re capable of handling that abandonment swiftly, right? So I need to have an OR team ready for me to be able to go back to do a C-section if either of those options have not worked.

[00:38:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. the other thing, they’re probably like, oh, I wanna put on my birth plan that I do not want an assisted delivery, and I do not put assisted delivery on birth plans because A, nobody wants an assisted delivery. Right?

[00:38:47] And B, it’s such, it’s like made in the moment choice. It’s not like, are you planning to breastfeed?

[00:38:53] Yes or no? Like, it is such a, like this is what’s happening. We’re in the moment. I guess you could, if you’re like getting tired and do you want the assist with a vacuum or are you okay doing it on your own? Like that’s a choice. But, most often it’s, it’s a thing that’s made in the moment, which is a lot of birth.

[00:39:08] I think it’s great to be educated and you’re like, you know, if I, if I still have that effort in me, I wanna push it on my own instead of getting the vacuum. ’cause I prefer not to tear. But that in general is not most of the vacuums that I’ve seen placed.

[00:39:20] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. And I think, you know, we laughed last time you and I spoke about the infamous birth plan. And people love or hate them, I think, and there’s very little gray in the love. They either love or hate. I am a little gray in that zone because I don’t feel like it’s fair to have, patients get so specific in something that they think that they have. A lot of control over. ’cause sometimes I don’t have control over it, right? And so your body does what it wants to do. Your baby presents how it wants to present. The clinical scenario is different with every single patient. So I just sit down and just have a little heart, heart and say, let’s go through this birth plan.

[00:39:55] And then we walk through it and say, okay, you said you want X, but what if? What if this happens? You know, that may change your mind. And so we just have that conversation more organically about what the options are. And I say, I would love for you to be able to deliver this baby without any assistance from me and or a C-section.

[00:40:11] However, let’s go through worst case scenario so we can ward off evil juju and then we can get that outta the conversation. And then, you know, and I know where we stand in case something like that presents and that seems to sort of, you know when somebody comes in and they’re feeling heightened, ’cause they’re like, I don’t want you to talk to me about it because it’s not gonna happen for me.

[00:40:26] I feel like it just sort of drops some of their guard and armor when I’m like, yeah, let’s just word it off. We’ll just talk about it that way we don’t have to worry about it later. And so, you know, we can go from there and that usually helps people.

[00:40:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, I love that war. It’s like the bad juju.

[00:40:38] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah, Yeah, I have, I have a little bit of a black cloud, which is probably why I talk about all these things. ’cause I like to just make sure that people are prepared. and a black cloud is not to freak anybody out, but a black cloud, like meaning, I have all kinds of strange things happen to me. So I have to anticipate them and I want you to know that I know how to handle them and that my team knows how to handle them.

[00:40:56] And I say, if I’m not talking to you. Really quickly in that moment, it’s because I’m trying to make sure I’m taking care of all the steps that need to be taken care of, but I promise you, I’ll talk to you about it as soon as I can, and I just say that to them.

[00:41:08] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I love that. Okay. The other thing I would recommend is learning to take care of your bottom, like

[00:41:12] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Hmm.

[00:41:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: we sort of ignore, like I took a birth class and they were just like sunshine and rainbows. Once that baby’s come out, you won’t have a single problem for the rest of your life because it was so easy to parent this baby, right?

[00:41:21] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: right?

[00:41:21] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And that was a lie. So I didn’t know how to like take care of my bottom. So I think that’s a really important thing to learn. We’re not gonna go into that a ton in this podcast,

[00:41:29] But understanding that you might tear and your bum might hurt more than you thought it was going to. Because I swear with my fourth degree, my bum hurt.

[00:41:37] My other friend had a C-section like a week later and me getting in and outta the bed and her getting into bed was like, I was like, it’s worse for me.

[00:41:45] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah.

[00:41:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: so that’s always a choice that we’re having to make. You know, he’s fine. So it, and then I ended up having vaginal deliveries with the rest of mine.

[00:41:52] So there were pros and cons, but learning to take care of your bottom, learning that it could be an issue. Learning that it even is gonna happen because a lot of people are really caught off guard by how much their bum hurts after they have a baby.

[00:42:01] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Abso, oh my gosh. I feel like this is one of those things we just don’t talk about enough. And Absolutely. Before you leave the hospital, you should ask about, pericare. And we call it pericare. So like your perineum, which is where your labia are, all the way into your rectum. You need to ask, and if you have a third or a fourth degree, you need to be asking, okay, what are my goals?

[00:42:21] How do I manage this? What are the things that I can do to help prevent any other side effects and they should be talking to you about stool softeners. They should be talking to you about these little donuts that you sit on to help provide some comfort. They should be talking about, a spray that helps numb stuff, ice pack, like all of these things.

[00:42:39] Are crucial to help you provide yourself the best environment to heal, but absolutely. And then sometimes you may not even had a third or fourth degree and it still stink and just hurts. Like it hurts. Like your vagina went through a huge transition and you have to talk about that to know what to expect, and then look for signs and symptoms of things that may be outside of what’s normal and know when to call and come in for sure.

[00:43:01] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. let me just give an amen to a stool softener.

[00:43:04] Let me just give an amen to the, I wish I had a bidet.

[00:43:06] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Oh,

[00:43:07] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: If anybody’s thinking about getting a bidet, install it before your postpartum,

[00:43:10] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: I

[00:43:10] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: because I would’ve just sat there.

[00:43:12] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: should get bidets. Everybody.

[00:43:13] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s shocking. They’re so cheap at like Home Depot. Like I was like, oh, this is gonna be thousands of dollars to add to my toilet wrong.

[00:43:20] But if I could have just sat there and ran the cold bidet water on my lady bits, that would’ve been, I probably wouldn’t have never left. I probably would’ve just breastfed from the toilet until it overflowed. I don’t know. But I’m just saying bidets are amazing. And also, I kept my tucks in my fridge. I had a sister-in-law who told me that one, and that felt really good.

[00:43:37] I mean, a lot of people make padcicles but sometimes padcicles, like melt. It can be hard, but just keeping my tucks in my fridge was something that I could do, and I wish I had put ice on actually longer once I got home. But I was like, I literally just thought I was weak,

[00:43:50] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Right.

[00:43:51] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: you know?

[00:43:51] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: It’s

[00:43:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I was like, it’s a third degree, but I can just still muscle through it.

[00:43:54] No, I couldn’t just muscle through it. It was miserable and that’s fine.

[00:43:57] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: why we do that. I think we do that to ourselves and we do that collectively as a a whole, we just don’t talk about it enough to sort of normalize asking for help, and you shouldn’t have to be painfully recovering in a way that you don’t get things to help you with the pain.

[00:44:13] I don’t know why we do this, but Amen. I, I, unfortunately, or fortunately, however you look at it, had, a c-section, and then a repeat c-section. My first C-section, I had no idea what to expect even though I was an obstetrician at the time. I was a resident and I was still trying to figure it out, and I was just trying to be a hard ass, you know?

[00:44:28] My husband’s like, what are you doing? Why don’t you ask for help? I’m like, I can do this. He’s like, why do you have to do this, like, let me help you. And so I don’t know why we feel like we have to be, she rock going through all of, all of these of recovery and pregnancy and all of the things, but the tucks pad in the fridge, that’s like a golden nugget, guys.

[00:44:44] So if, if you take one thing out of here, that tux pad in the fridge is where it’s at.

[00:44:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, well, especially, I lived in a very tiny apartment, so the fridge, the fridge was just a few walks away. Now I would be like, I’d have to go down the stairs. I would’ve put a fridge in my room. I literally would put a fridge in my room if I had to go back and do it again, and lived in a larger home.

[00:45:00] Just so you guys know.

[00:45:01] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: we should also put on the the baby registry bidet. I mean, that should be your first number one baby registry bidet. Done?

[00:45:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, It’s so helpful. Laborie, I hope you start building a bidet.

[00:45:13] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yes.

[00:45:13] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: our next podcast with them. Alright, so I think, let’s sum it up. I think we’ve learned that these can be super, super helpful and This isn’t something to be afraid of. It’s another tool in our tool belt. Don’t come in afraid of this.

[00:45:24] And that providers are gonna use, which works best for them. And that’s okay. I think I see a lot of people online mad that a provider doesn’t know how to do absolutely everything in the whole wide world. And that’s that’s just not the way it is. Hopefully, you know, maybe you’re in a group where there’s like a lot of different people who are different at good, good at different things, but sometimes you’re also in the middle of nowhere and you’ve got the one provider and you’re gonna wanna cater to what they do best, which is how we do things. Like when my tile guy comes, I want him to do the best tile job he can do in the best way he knows how to do it, not me. Like, why don’t we do the ceiling, you know?

[00:45:59] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Absolutely. that’s such a huge thing, is just talk with them. Know what they’re capable of doing, know what, what instruments and devices they’re comfortable using, and then don’t steer from that. Don’t ask them to do something that they’re not proficient in doing. ’cause that’s just risky for you, which I know you don’t want. You want it to be the least risky option for you and your baby.

[00:46:18] So a hundred percent.

[00:46:19] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And also the third thing is I’m so glad that we have advances like the Kiwi vac so that we, we are able to do things better than maybe we were doing before or have another option because I’m not saying that the vacuum’s right for everything, and I think you’ve said that too, but this one is better than the one The nurse would like pump up and they’d be like, come on. And we’d be like all stressed out and freaking out at delivery. It’s so much nicer to have something that one person is controlling and then I’m able to do my other things, and

[00:46:44] Dr Tori O’Daniel MD: Yeah.

[00:46:44] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: think it’s just. I love that we’re having some advances in care.

[00:46:48] Tori O’Daniel, MD: one other thing that I, remembered about the vacuum when you were talking sort of like you had said previously where you have a squirrel moment and the idea is fleeting is that this vacuum, this particular evolution, this part of this vacuum that is so crucial is the fact that this tubing is flexible. So it makes this ability of the vacuum to be able to get to these really mal positioned babies who are op, that sunny side up baby or a baby that is transverse. And if it’s wonky, the term that we use is asynclitic. So it’s just in the pelvis wrong. And let’s say your physician has tried, your midwife has tried to rotate and it’s just not rotating. The thing about these flexible neck vacuum, so this kiwi vacuum gives me ability to offer candidates a vacuum who are mal presented like that. Previously when you had a vacuum that just had a rigid neck, I could not get a baby that it was OP to get a vacuum on appropriately to get it to flex and rotate. And I did not understand that part when I was trained. And that’s partially because I don’t think that my attendings that were training really understood that, which is why I became really passionate about teaching other physicians how a vacuum works. Like what is the actual process behind how a vacuum works and why a flexible neck gives you more options for candidates.

[00:48:04] So if my patient is op or sunnyside up, I can use a vacuum. I don’t just have to use forceps. And those docs that just use vacuums. They don’t even, they didn’t even think that they could have the option ’cause they weren’t using forceps. And if I can teach you and train you that you can show how this will rotate, then that opens up so many more people, which are usually the people that can’t deliver vaginally because those op babies don’t want to deliver vaginally because they’re de flexing and increasing that diameter.

[00:48:32] So to kind of like encompass this, you are so right. The evolution of the vacuum and how it’s evolved to really provide better care is huge over the last 15, 20 years.

[00:48:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, in case you guys are like, well what did the other one look like? So this one looks like a bagel in case you’re not on the video. And the old one looked like the Liberty Bell. So it was like a cone shape. It didn’t have that big thing that a hang on the church, but it was a cone shape, very rigid.

[00:48:54] And so you couldn’t slide it. You were, and more likely to tear people. I felt like, I felt like we had less tears with the new vacuum than with the other one. ’cause they were like trying to slide it in and I was like, the Liberty Bell, not the Liberty Bell.

[00:49:06] Tori O’Daniel, MD: and they still make that, and it’s now what the evolution of that one is that that material is softer, and people use it and it’s still totally okay and appropriate to use it, but it’s only for those babies who are oA where that posterior fontanel is on the anterior part, like this, this, or this, you can still use them, perfectly safe to use them.

[00:49:25] And now they’re soft so you can squeeze ’em. So you can avoid like what she was describing. You can actually squeeze it to go into the vagina, but it cannot get to these positions. So that OP OT positions where you need to get deeper in the pelvis, you need a flexible neck vacuum, which is what this one is.

[00:49:41] And that’s, that’s such a huge thing to teach people that we say. All the time when we teach, you can open up the opportunity for people who are candidates to do that, and babies who are now op.

[00:49:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And so thank goodness for companies like Laborie. I’ll put the other episode, in the comments or in the show link, whatever we call it. but we had another one about, Overweight moms or people with an apron belly and, and you guys have other things that can make those type of things better too.

[00:50:07] So I’m so grateful that there are companies out there who are looking to make a difference to better OB care because I feel like a lot of people are just like not doing that because they don’t want the, I don’t know, they think Mother Nature’s gonna do her job, but she doesn’t always do her job. So I’m grateful that we have things that can help us.

[00:50:22] Tori O’Daniel, MD: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, which is why we love this video and this podcast sponsored by Laborie. They make, a lot of things that we can use to help prevent C-sections or make C-sections safer, when, if we have to do them. So big thanks to them for sponsoring this podcast. Big thanks to Tori for coming on. I hope you guys understand them a little bit better.

[00:50:38] That they’re not something to be afraid of. There’s something to learn about and just be prepared if they end up happening to you. And also just be prepared for all the things, including postpartum, because we want you guys to have safe, happy deliveries.

[00:50:49] Tori O’Daniel, MD: Thank you so much Hilary, for letting me come on and talk, about all of this stuff. I think it’s important to make sure that you’re as educated, as you can be when you’re going through this process because it certainly is a lot of unknown and a little bit scary if you don’t

[00:51:01] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. All right. Thanks, Tori.

[00:51:03] Tori O’Daniel, MD: Thank you so much.

[00:51:04] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: okay. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I think it’s something that’ll, there’s a lot of fearmongering that goes on, and I of course am never here for the fearmongering. I think it’s important to be educated on it, but again, it doesn’t happen that frequently, and hopefully you just have like a regular vaginal delivery.

[00:51:17] But in case this ends up happening to you, at least you’re educated. I hope you guys will join me for more episodes in the future.

[00:51:23] Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

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Keywords:

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Before we get started how do I have a clue in this space? Hi, I’m Hilary — a lot of people know me as The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of labor and delivery experience. I’ve also taught birth classes for my hospital and seen first hand the transformational change that a birth class can have for a couple.

I think they’re not talked about enough so I’m really glad that you’re here.

Cliff Notes: If you just want a good class and then to peace out of this article My #1 class is The Online Prenatal class for Couples. It is affordable, taught by a labor nurse, it’s constantly being updated and added to. I think it’s the best class out there, bar none.

BUT I’m guessing that a few of you have more questions than that. So, let’s answer a few.

Why a class from a labor nurse?

The dirty secret in labor and delivery is that your labor nurse does 99% of the work. Your provider will pop in, deliver and leave. Your nurse is there the whole time. She really sees labor over, and over, and over from beginning to end.

Labor nurses are the fount of labor knowledge, and while doctors are great to come deliver and help if something is going wrong — it’s really left to your labor nurse to manage it.

While there are other classes out there by doulas (VERY hard to vet, and often concentrate on the wrong things), midwives (again, hard to vet — are they a CNM or a lay midwife…. do they know about hospital birth) and even some out there by doctors… I really think that a class from a labor nurse is going to be your best bet.

What a birth class should cover?

Great question, because recent info is showing that a lot of birth classes fall short of what they truly need to teach.

I think this is what you’re going to want to cover:

• 3rd trimester testing (a SUPER important part that SO many people skip)
• What labor is like and how to labor at home for a while (and know when to go in)
• What to expect at the hospital — admission, supplies, routines, etc
• Pain management options (yes, every class should cover both natural pain management & medical pain management)
• Common interventions such as vacuums, forceps, inductions, what happens when baby’s heart rate dips and cesareans (SO important!!!! — and this is an area that labor nurses shine in)
• What happens at & after delivery (both vaginal and cesearean)
• How to get the most out of your postpartum stay
• How to take care of yourself & baby once you go home (and problem signs to watch for)

I also think it can be helpful to get classes in:

• Breastfeeding
• Baby Care
• Perhaps some extra focus on natural pain management

Honestly — this is why I recommend The Online Prenatal Class for Couples — because it really addresses each of these areas.

What You WANT in a Birth Class?

This can be tricky — but let me give you a few things to think about:

Interaction with other moms? You can look for a class with a Facebook group, or perhaps an in-person class. Personally, I don’t think those interactions end-up being as helpful as you think they are. I think going to a postpartum hospital support group can be really helpful though.

Video or Text? Some people love to read, some people love video or audio at least. Look for a class that has what you need.

Partner Prep? Looking to get your partner more involved in your pregnancy and birth — look for a class that includes them.

Still Be Able to Afford Diapers? Birth classes have gotten INSANE with their pricing. Somehow, with the advent of online courses we think we should charge more for them? Anyway, there are classes at a good price point, and some insurance companies cover them as well.

Engaging Instructor — I’m always amazed that people can be really fun online and show-up in a way that helps people, but when they go to create a birth class they’re as dry as toast. I don’t know why — I think that’s when you bring your A-game, but make sure you have an instructor that works for you. A few things that can help with this:

• Take a free class with them << this makes it really easy to know their teaching style and if it works for you.
• Watch their longer videos on Youtube. See if you find them engaging, fun. Someone you’d want to spend a few hours with.
• Make sure they teach to ALL types of births (although I think labor nurses naturally do this since they deliver in all types of ways) — not the type they think is “right. I get nervous when people offer separate classes for cesarean or “natural” birth — I think we gotta know about all the things.

Bells and Whistles? Anything else you think you’ll find super helpful in the class? These can include:

• Live meet-ups to ask your questions
• Printables or workbooks
• Bonus content that support your birth journey — breastfeeding, baby sleep, etc.

You know yourself best. For instance, I love a workbook to follow along, but a lot of people don’t…. so, pick what works for you.

Things to Watch-Out For

There are a few things I’d encourage you to watch out for:

Updates? Many labor nurses take the time to make their initial class and then sell it for years. Are they taking the time to make updates as practices change? I think this is really important — and I am sure that this class is actually being constantly updated and has gone through LOTS since it started in 2016.

LABOR nurse. There are a few classes out there taught by nurses but not actually LABOR nurses. Let’s be really clear that pregnancy is it’s own nursing skillset and other nurses aren’t going to have the same abilities as an actual labor nurse.

Experience. The weird thing about labor nurse, as a job, is that you’re really a bit of a novice for the first 8 or so years. After that you’ve just seen more, learned more and are just more aware of labor. So — you’re looking for someone who’s been at the beside for a long time.

What about in person classes?

I think a lot of us think we want and need an in-person class. But I think we’re finding out that:

Hospital classes may be biased to make you a good patient rather than to have a great birth. Not every class is angled that way, but I know when I taught for my hospital there were some guidelines we were to follow.

In-person classes have timelines. You gotta be there Tuesdays at 6 pm. You have to find parking, and sit in our hard hospital chairs. It’s just TOUGH for couples — and as a hospital instructor I saw this just wasn’t working for them. They’re tired, hungry and often one of the couple had to miss.

One and done — sure, you might get some handouts, but what if you want to review what your great instructor had to say? You’re out of luck — whereas the online classes allow you to review. This one even comes with cliff notes to review right before birth!

Best 5 Online Birth Classes Taught by Labor Nurses

Ok, here are my top five classes out there:

(sharing my pro’s and con’s for each class — again, just my opinion, I think all these labor nurses out there are doing the good work!)

#1: The Online Prenatal Class for Couples

Pro’s: I love that this is created for couples, taught by a nurse with a LOT of experience and the price point is one of the best in the business, especially when you do the bundle that includes so many different options. Plus, I love that it’s for couples since it’s sometimes tricky to get that partner involved!

Con’s: Hilary talks fast, so some people find that annoying, although some people still speed up the videos and do just fine. I think she just wants to make sure you get the information you need, even with a busy lifestyle.

#2 Birth it Up!

Pro’s: Liesel has been at this for a long time and has a great online presence. I can also share that she is just as kind in person as she is online.

Con’s: I’m not sure how frequently this class is updated. I also don’t love the separate classes for “natural”, epidural and cesarean births.

#3 Bump to Latch

Pro’s: Tina is so funny and great. She’s been on my podcast a few times and we have met in person as well. She is genuine and funny and she also has a passion for breastfeeding (and is becoming an IBCLC I believe)

Con’s: This class is brand new, which always makes me a little nervous. I’m also seeing the class price dropping a lot during a very long initial launch. While Tina has a LOT of free content online, I don’t see a free class to check out her teaching style for this type of thing.

#4 Labor Nurse Mama’s Course

Pro’s: Trish has been in online spaces for a long time and clearly knows how to navigate them. She has a good amount of free content and also some videos on the sales page that gives you an idea of what to expect.

Con’s: This class seems more “natural” focused (hard to know if that’s the type of birth you’re GOING to have). Trish seems to now be focused on coaching people to build their healthcare related business. She also has a monthly fee/group that she enrolls you in as well. Just not my favorite (but a favorite of coaches).

#5 Bundle Birth Labor Class

Pro’s: Bundle Birth is well known in the labor space, mainly for training NURSES.

Con’s: Their focus is training nurses, which is awesome — I’m just not sure it can also be tailored to patients as well. I’d prefer someone who just focuses on patient teaching. With all the spoons they have in nurse education, I doubt this gets the updates it deserves.

A few things I notice as I reviewed my favorites:

1. Many of these were produced ONE time — and don’t get the add-ons or updates that they deserve.
2. When birth classes really “came” online in 2020 a LOT of people made them and have slowly left them behind, so be very careful that the class you purchase is still being “serviced” (aka, will any emails, comments or troubleshooting be answered).
3. The PRICE. Yipes guys. Some of these are so expensive for a very basic class. Don’t get me started on monthly fees. Oy. vey.
4. They’re all the #1 class with the MOST value. Makes me giggle. I hate marketing.

But the good news is there is a lot of variety in the space and I hope you can find a class that works for YOU.

I also have this post in video form that you might as enjoy as well:

Have a review of one of these classes, or have questions? Ask us in the comments. Either way, I’m glad you’re looking to get prepared for your upcoming birth. It’s so smart of you!

The post Best Online Birthing Classes Taught by a Labor Nurse appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

You can also watch it here:

Big thanks to our sponsor Family Routines you’ll see that a specific routine makes a big difference!

Today’s guest: Stephanie Straub is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Group Private Practice Owner in Syracuse, New York. She specializes in reproductive and maternal mental health, supporting women and families throughout their perinatal journey. When she’s not working she spends her time outdoors, watching junk reality TV, or reluctantly exercising. She is also the proud mother of two beautiful and active daughters. Find here here: www.cnytherapysolutions.com

Links for you:

Stephanie’s other episode (110) : https://www.pullingcurls.com/podcast-110-postpartum/

Timestamps:

00:00 “Bridging Parenthood Preparedness Gaps”

03:19 Inclusive Parenting Dynamics

06:49 Parental Shifts and Responsibilities

11:11 Navigating Partnership Dynamics

15:09 “Sunday Sit-Down: Weekly Planning”

17:45 “Prepping Kids for Vacation”

19:54 “Fair Play: Household Task Strategy”

23:02 “Weekly Meal and Relationship Check-In”

28:34 Navigating Life’s Changing Roles

30:57 Traditional Male Provider Stress

34:46 Empowering Others Through Support

38:54 “Teaching Kids ‘Notice and Do'”

42:13 Postpartum Challenges and Encouragement

43:48 “Sunday Sit Down Reflections”

Keypoints:

• The episode mainly focuses on changes in marital roles, particularly after a new baby is born and through various life changes.
• Hilary Erickson and Stephanie Straub discuss how marital roles are defined differently for each couple, emphasizing their responsibilities and tasks.
• There’s recognition of how support shifts postpartum, with Stephanie highlighting how things like taking a shower become major accomplishments.
• A focus was placed on how partners, especially new dads, also experience significant role changes during postpartum periods.
• Hilary shared insights from her birth class creation, emphasizing the importance of partners understanding and getting on the same page.
• They delve into the concept of the mental load, specifying how it’s often invisible but heavily carried by one partner, usually women.
• The “Sunday sit down” was introduced as a strategy for couples to plan the week and share responsibilities to balance the mental load.
• Hilary pointed out how roles naturally shift over time with children growing up, like when they start driving or start going to school.
• The discussion included how societal expectations shape gender roles and how they affect parenting dynamics.
• They emphasize the importance of communication and being on the same page to handle changes in family dynamics and reduce potential conflicts.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Hey guys, welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 258, we are talking about changes in marital roles. Let’s untangle it.

[00:00:07] Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial over complicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and The Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop over complicating things, and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, The Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:37] This episode of The Pulling Curls Podcast is sponsored by Family Routines. If you are looking to make life easier, teach your kids the things they need to know, and prioritize what’s really important to you, come join us in Family Routines.

[00:00:50] Super excited for today’s guest. This is her second time on the Pulling Curls Podcast. She is a clinical social worker and a group private practice owner in Syracuse, New York. I found her on Tik TOK with mama therapy. I absolutely love her account. You totally need to follow her. I want to introduce today’s guest, Stephanie Straub.

[00:01:07] Hey, Stephanie, welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Hi, Hilary. Thank you for having me. I’m glad to be back. Yes. I’m so excited for our new format. We’re talking a little bit longer and it’s going to be so good. Okay. So today we are talking about marital roles. Stephanie, tell me like, what’s a definition of a marital role?

[00:01:25] Stephanie Straub: All right. Coming in hot with a hard one. I think the thing that makes this such a difficult subject is the definition is different, right? For it depends on the individual couple, but in general, I think it’s the responsibility, the task. The energy that each partner brings to the partnership, to the marriage.

[00:01:46] And specifically, my expertise is in providing support after a baby’s been born and when we’re kind of in the postpartum and parenting stage.

[00:01:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And marital roles just go out the window at that point.

[00:01:58] Stephanie Straub: I think a lot of things go out the window

[00:02:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: For the woman, right? Because you feel horrible. You’ve had a major medical, which I think a lot of people don’t really like look at it that way, but they should, especially partners should be looking at it that way.

[00:02:11] You know, my appendix perforated last fall and when I came home, like I was like, I am going to get back to regular life. And I didn’t, Stephanie. I could barely get to the shower. So, you know, when something big happens, things change.

[00:02:27] Stephanie Straub: Because you’re a doer and a go getter and it’s like, okay, I could stay on top of things.

[00:02:32] And then all of a sudden something happened, like a surgery or like a new baby. That all of a sudden, it’s a miracle if you took a shower that day, that was a good day, right? It’s like a departure. Yeah, it’s like dating all over again.

[00:02:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: This is actually why when I, when I created my birth class like forever ago, over 10 years ago, I was like, how do I want to make mine different? Because I think the thing I brought to the table was that I’ve now been married 27 years. And I really understood how the dynamic changes and how little your partner understands about how things are going to change when baby comes home or what to expect and all those different kinds of things.

[00:03:11] And if you could just get on the same page, even like loosely on the same page, it really can make a difference. when that baby comes home.

[00:03:18] Stephanie Straub: Yeah. I don’t want to take, you know, if, if we’re speaking about kind of heterosexuals, cisgender roles, right? I don’t want to take the male out of the equation or the non birth.

[00:03:31] If, if, if it’s a same sex or relationship, I don’t want to take the non birth partner out of that because their world has also changed as well. But I think we focus so much on what’s going to happen. Getting, like, getting to the point of labor, delivery, bringing the baby home, taking care of the baby, that we kind of forget there are two other major layers that are going through something here, and there are going to have to be adjustments made on both sides.

[00:03:59] Of course, I’m very protective of the new mother because they just went through a major medical event. But for the dads or the partners, like, it’s happening to them too. That’s something major is happening. It can really throw you for a loop and it can impact the room.

[00:04:15] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I will say that the longer, the further I got away from having babies of my own, the more I looked at the dads and felt a little bit more sorry for them.

[00:04:24] You know, right after I have a baby, I would just be like attacking those dads with my eye daggers, right? If they were like, in the corner, because I’m at a stage where my sons are closer to having babies than we are, right? Yeah, my youngest is now 16. So yeah, hopefully they have a baby in the next 16 years.

[00:04:44] Stephanie Straub: Yeah. Teach men how to do this. Do a real good job letting women know what their roles should be, right? I think we do. It’s a detriment of a lot of folks who struggle with balancing it all, but I don’t think it’s good of a job talking to young boys, young men, and new parents, new male fathers about what should their role look like in terms of being an emotional support, in terms of recognizing the invisible mental load, in terms of stepping into that space.

[00:05:15] You know, and I don’t want

[00:05:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: to turn off the people not having babies, too, because I think this applies to any major life event changes. Mom goes back to work. Dad goes back to work. Any type of thing like that. I think that this conversation relates to all big. Changes in family.

[00:05:31] Stephanie Straub: That’s a very good point. I start out with a lot of times people who are pregnant are really postpartum.

[00:05:36] They stay on with me, which I’m going to take as a compliment. They enjoy the work we’re doing. They feel good about it. It seems to be supportive, but not working with people who have kids who are five years old. I’ve been working with them since they were pregnant or people who just start with me later.

[00:05:51] And this is a huge mistake of… You know, maybe they were the go getter and the do it all and the manager, but then, and once we add, you know, career and babies or a whole, a home and, and now your parents are aging, you’re taking, like the stakes get higher, the responsibilities. And it’s like, Oh, like I can no longer do it all by myself.

[00:06:14] And they’re trying to call their partner in, the partner really hasn’t had to fill that space yet because they’ve been. They’ve been doing it, like they’ve been doing it on their own at that, and so it’s a big adjustment for both partners of like, I don’t like having to ask for help, so now I have to do it, right?

[00:06:32] And the, and the other partner is kind of like, I don’t know how to help. I don’t know how, I don’t know how to help. I don’t know. So tell me how to help. Well, then that feels like now I’m doing your mental work. Nobody told me what to do. You know, it’s this whole snowball effect. And then people come in here and they say, what do I do?

[00:06:49] So

[00:06:50] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And I think five is a big time where things shift because you’ve got one going to kindergarten. A lot of times then the mom’s like, I’m going to pick up more time at work. Um, you know, there’s, somehow we think their kids are going to go to school and that, like, our responsibility ends from eight to three or whatever, but for me, I then picked it up by helping more in the classroom, and I was, I was an idiot and was a PTA president, right?

[00:07:13] Like, we all Make choices that aren’t always the best, but you know, I think we look at this and we’re like, oh, we got through the postpartum thing, but I think all through parenthood, we’re in a zone right now where my youngest will soon be able to drive, right? And so that’s a big load off of high school.

[00:07:29] In high school, you are literally just a taxi driver. And now that we’re going to eliminate that in these coming months, what does that look like moving forward? How can we rebalance the load if one was the driver more, one wasn’t?

[00:07:41] Stephanie Straub: Right. Right, and I think, I think things have evolved where this generation’s partners, like, they might be doing more than their dads and their grandfathers did, but there’s still this issue with the mental load.

[00:07:57] Somebody still maybe has to tell them that something needs to be done, and that’s a lot. That’s a lot. And they’re willing to do it, but they might not recognize it needs to be done without the being instructed to do that. So I acknowledge that that’s not progress, but I think the demands on the American family have evolved a lot faster than these, these roles, marital roles in marriage and parenting.

[00:08:24] So as the demands on the family are increasing. Right? The, the shifts are not kind of shifting, uh, at the same rate.

[00:08:33] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:08:34] Stephanie Straub: Yeah.

[00:08:34] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And this whole mental load thing is something that is just like, women have always talked about it, right? Like we’re in charge of getting all the presents. We’re in charge of making sure kids get their yearly checkups, even if the part, even if our partner will take them to the checkups or come with us and support us in the checkups or help us pick a pediatrician.

[00:08:50] A lot of us still have all the kind of the mental work of that little task list that we’re like. Okay, they’re turning one. We also need to get an appointment. Okay, we also need to get a dental appointment. Okay. I don’t think we talked about that the first 15 years of my parenting. Maybe 12 years. I think it’s just in the last five years, maybe, that this has really started to come up, that people are verbalizing, because I would just be like, why do I have to make the to do list, right?

[00:09:14] Stephanie Straub: Yeah. Yeah. So interestingly enough, I was working with a client a while back who was struggling with this in their partnership and she saw me for therapy. Her partner was also in therapy and God bless her partner, went to therapy and said, my wife is asking this from me. I’m really struggling. I don’t know how to do it.

[00:09:34] And that therapist told her partner. It’s a list of the things you could do that would help reduce her mental load. Now I have to write a list of what you could do to reduce my mental load. Whereas, I think the frustration is we can see the garbage is over. Both can see the garbage is overflowing. Or we both know that kids need to get their teeth cleaned every six months.

[00:10:01] We both know, right? And what’s huge is Default parent that that’s what it’s on. And again, that can work for a certain amount of time until it doesn’t. It can really create a wedge in our, in our approach. So.

[00:10:18] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And honestly, the default parent, it changes, right? So just recently our, our school likes to change the communication method about every six months, I swear.

[00:10:28] And so I was getting the emails and my husband wasn’t getting the emails because I had gone through and clicked all the 600 boxes that I needed to get the emails and he was just like, whatever. But, you know, my appendix ruptures. And I’m still like, Hey, did you know that Paige has testing today? Hey, did you know, you know, and I’m like, why is why we are both parents?

[00:10:47] We both have email. Why is this always falling on me to check the email and know what’s going on with her at school where it’s had worked prior to that? Because I again was fully functioning and had was right, right.

[00:11:00] Stephanie Straub: Um, but

[00:11:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: you never know, like there was no, we didn’t plan my appendix to rupture. You just never know.

[00:11:05] Or I go to a conference and all of a sudden I’m at the conference and I’m having to send him a text and be like, did you see the email? And he goes, what email? And then I’m like, right.

[00:11:14] Stephanie Straub: Yeah. And so I think there’s a couple of things that we can do around this to address it. And again, it works until it doesn’t work.

[00:11:21] So if you’re in that role, there’s typically one person in the partnership, it’s a little bit more of the manager and the plan B, one who is and one who isn’t, and then they marry each other. And so there is necessarily an issue or a dysfunction in one person being a little bit more on top of these things, or just maybe it’s a little bit more aware, but it’s when we couple.

[00:11:43] This person into partnership, do they hop on board? But I think one thing that people who are the doers and that they have to struggle with is watching something potentially fall apart or crumble, right? A ball get dropped and watching somebody struggle and the tragic and the desire to swoop in and prevent that and fix that.

[00:12:06] Right? For the other person. And I think sometimes it has to be, because it’s a big deal thing. And I think sometimes it does have to be. You don’t have to… The mistake can be made, the ball can be dropped, made out of rubber, it’ll bounce back. Sometimes they’re made out of glass and they won’t, right? And so you do have to step in.

[00:12:26] Just let the mess up happen. Because there is no greater teacher and it works way better if you’re saying you need to do this and you need to do that. So I think sometimes the person who is the doer and the planner and the manager needs to step back even if we know Something’s like something’s maybe not being done the way we would do it.

[00:12:47] Maybe something’s gonna be missed. We can let it happen. We can let it happen. And if there’s a consequence or repercussion Right? That will be the learning tool.

[00:12:57] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Or it’s just a different way to do something, right? Because I worked, I worked dinner time when my kids were little. I worked 3 to 11 and my husband wouldn’t plan meals every day like I would.

[00:13:08] So a lot of times it was mac and cheese or like fried rice, just kind of like whatever. He was feeding the children, they were getting fed, but I was bothered that it wasn’t the way that I was doing it. And finally a friend was just like, you just have to let him do it the way he’s going to do it. And then if you want to, you load up extra vegetables on your day.

[00:13:25] Stephanie Straub: Yes. Yeah. That’s a, that’s a great point of just because it’s different, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s wrong, you know, and, and, and that’s okay. And we can sit back and we might always feel some level of distress about it, right? But we can sit in that, that distress.

[00:13:44] In pursuit of what’s best for the relationship because if you are harping on, Hey, I need you to help out with dinner and then they help out with dinner and they’re like, no, not that way. Well, what’s that in the relationship? That’s not going to feel good for your partner and creates a marital rut.

[00:13:58] Where we’re kind of parentifying one partner over the other, that’s going to wear everyone down. So it’s important where we can to sit back.

[00:14:08] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I totally agree. I think that it is hard, especially when you feel like, these are my kids, we’re ruining them. You know, especially with young kids, like teenagers I’ve given up ruining them.

[00:14:19] And especially, my daughter should know that stuff is going on at school. She’s a sophomore in high school. If they’re having testing, it really should be her job to be like, Hey, we have testing tomorrow. I’ll need a ride home early or whatever the case may be. Right. But I, of course, wanted to swoop in and make sure that she was just taken care of in every little need.

[00:14:36] Stephanie Straub: Sure. And again, I’ll go back to that, that trusty old soapbox. That’s kind of what we’re told to do. Like, right. That we’re kind of the emotional caregivers for everybody and everybody, everybody and everything. Right? And that’s kind of what our role is. And if something happened, like we feel unnecessarily a lot of the times guilty about it.

[00:14:57] Yeah. One thing that I encourage for couples that I, that I work with, and I say couples, I don’t actually do couples work any longer, but I do couples work by proxy, if that makes any sense. Right? So I’m working with the individual they’re coming in. I recommend this to pretty much everyone and it’s called the Sunday sit down.

[00:15:15] I would love to give credit to whoever I, wherever I picked this up from, but, and it doesn’t have to be Sunday, but I like the observation, down on a Sunday evening with your partner. And we will look together at the calendar and somebody might be more of the leader in in the partnership and the pairing where they’re the one who’s going to come in with a suggestion to do it.

[00:15:37] And they’re the one who might sit down and say, okay, remember, we have let’s do it at seven. And you look at every coming up in the next 7 days. This is where this kid needs to be at this time in this day in this. Instead of saying, instead of positioning oneself to say, you do it, you do it, you do it, you do it, I’ll do it, right?

[00:15:57] We just say, all right, all right, I’m gonna do that. Or, you know, there’s a dentist appointment on Thursday that needs to be, Joey needs to be taken to. Who’s gonna do that? Instead of positioning oneself as the delegator of the test, Really allow yourself to be in partnership with your partner and together decide who’s going to take on ones.

[00:16:21] And I think that that really helps because there’s no assumption it’s discussed and there’s not one person who is in charge of giving out the task and decided to put together. So while there may be one person who might more aware of the tasks, that’s the starting points. Right? Because once the person takes them to the dentist appointment, well, what happens at the end of that dentist appointment?

[00:16:48] We make the next appointment, right? And now, now they’ve scheduled the next appointment and they’re the keeper of that mount. They’re the one who’s bringing it. Does that make sense?

[00:16:58] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Yeah. It is crazy how much, I don’t know if it’s just women, but we just, all the things that are in our brain that don’t ever come out.

[00:17:08] Um, I think a Sunday sit down, especially like birthday parties, that was always just like… my kid would get a birthday party invitation at school and I would just crumble because I’d be like, Oh my gosh, we have to go to the store and find a present. I’m going to have to get him to the birthday party. I’m going to have to pick him back up or I had to stay at the birthday party.

[00:17:24] You know, the whole time, whereas my husband would be like, great, you’re going to Cooper’s birthday, right? But he didn’t realize that, you know, there was the getting the gift there was, and he’s a much better about this now. And I just think it took some time to be like, can you take her to get the gift? To verbalize all those things that come in our head with the invitation.

[00:17:44] Right?

[00:17:45] Stephanie Straub: Yes. And I had another place that I was working with that was just planning a vacation. You know, and it was like a spring, spring or February break. So, you know, they have to pack the kids, but it’s not as simple as like getting the stuff from, from last season and throwing it in a suitcase. You know, the funny thing about kids, they grow up.

[00:18:03] Yes. It’s all last summer. Fight not. When we go to Florida, and if they don’t, then I have to go and get new stuff or go shopping for new stuff, and we have to try that on, right? And the partner was unaware of this. And there’s one BAM superwoman in the partnership that like kind of does it all, and, and that’s like a badge that they wear.

[00:18:28] And, but they burn out, right? So they’re not talking about the fact that they’re doing this stuff. And so again, until they’re maxed out and now they’re like, and burn out. So, so yeah, so it wasn’t until they shared with their partner, Oh my gosh, I was so stressed out at work today because I was thinking about this.

[00:18:45] And their partner was like, wait, what? I had no awareness that this is what was going on behind this. Yeah.

[00:18:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Trip planning is a big one with a mental load, right? Because my husband’s just like, I’ll put the bags in the car, right? Like he’s just thinking, we’ll just get things. It’s kind of like that the actual tasks of the trip, right?

[00:19:07] Yeah. The, instead of like the finding the hotel, booking the rental car, for me, that was always a really tough time. And then we would get on the vacation and things would start to go wrong. And I would blame myself that things were going wrong, even though I had done everything that I could. Right. Have you?

[00:19:22] Is Stephanie, am I the only one here?

[00:19:25] Stephanie Straub: No, no, no. I hear that. Yeah. How talk about the things that need to be done in the home send a message. Like, I need you to empty the dishwasher. Can you help me get the kids back? That kind of conveys, it sends a message that this is my task, that you’re Give helping me out with this is a favor you’re doing for me as if a dishwasher or the bathing of the kids It’s only my responsibility so I think to Talk about these things like like Joey has a dentist appointment this week instead of saying I need you to take Joey to the dentist Right, or can you help me in taking Joey to the dentist?

[00:20:06] I think it kind of shifts the vibe and the tone around and a great tool for this the book Fair Play Is, and there’s a podcast and there’s also a documentary called Fair Play. It gives some strategy, real strategies. And the book actually comes with, or you can order with the book, the sets of cards. And these cards, all the different jurisdictions in the home and the family.

[00:20:33] And the couple’s down and they divvy up. Okay. Who’s going to do what? And when it comes to something like birthday party, right? It’s if you take on the kid’s friend’s birthday parties, it is from conception to execution. So if, if Joey, this imaginary child, Joey, Joey gets an invitation, then the parent who’s involved in that, whose jurisdiction that is, they get that invitation and the other parent doesn’t do anything about it.

[00:21:02] That’s your job. And we don’t go in there and micromanage to make sure it’s getting done a certain way. It’s that parent’s job. And from, okay, and I’m going to put it on the calendar and I’m going to make sure that, that the gift gets purchased and I’m going to make sure that they get there, you know, or I coordinate for a carpool or whatever, right?

[00:21:20] That is that parent’s job, and the other parent has to sit back and let it happen without their in micromancy yet.

[00:21:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So what do you do though if their appendix bursts, right? And then Joey as a party, so then is that they saying, Hey, we have a party on Saturday, can you help me? Is that the point when you say, can you help me?

[00:21:39] Get Joey to the party, right, because we’re still gonna, stuff’s gonna happen, people get sick.

[00:21:43] Stephanie Straub: I’ve worked with a couple that, that uses these cards, and they sit down every so often, and they, like, re divvy out the cards, because, again, like, things change, you know. I have a 14 year old and 11 year old, and dad would do haircuts.

[00:21:58] Well, it only took one really bad haircut for my oldest daughter, about a year and a half ago. And it was like, we can no longer just take them to the little hole in the wall salon around the corner. She wants like a real big girl haircut. So like, I took that responsibility back because, kind of a girl thing, and I had a good person.

[00:22:21] And so, I took that back. But then we shift things around, right? So, so, things change that, that. Uh, here’s the shuffling of the cards. For sure. Yeah, that’s a really good point.

[00:22:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s And I’m It’s because

[00:22:38] Stephanie Straub: For a season, it might, it might be a permanent change or it might just be for a season.

[00:22:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Well, and ultimately that will get to be a very light load, right?

[00:22:46] Because she can then, at some point, she gonna take that card, right? She’ll make her appointment. She knows the hair girl. She’ll text her. She’ll make the appointment. She might even drive herself there. Right? So ultimately we’re trying to give all the cards back to the kids except for like make our own beds.

[00:23:02] Stephanie Straub: Right? Right. For sure. For sure, but yeah, but, but I think having regular communication about, so if those Sunday sit downs, we talk about the meals and who, and like what we’re going to plan and this and that, and who’s cooking and all that kind of stuff, and we’re doing that together, then I think part of that Sunday sit down can be an emotional or relational check in.

[00:23:25] So, what works this past week, what didn’t work this past week, and if it didn’t work, you can’t just be like, this didn’t work, right? You gotta come in with some sort of solution connected to that, right? This didn’t really work for me, and again, it’s relational or emotional, right? But it’s great to have a space that you’re regularly gonna sit down and check in with each other on that level as well.

[00:23:47] When it is calm, because the worst is when Joey, you know, it’s Friday night, the party’s tomorrow, he hasn’t gotten the gift, you don’t know how he’s getting there, all those different kinds of things, right?

[00:23:58] Yes, when it’s calm, and it’s sometimes removed from the incident, because I know for, for in my relationship, there are things and I’m like, ah, it bothers me.

[00:24:08] And so I might just kind of make a note of it. And, um, and I’m not kidding. I literally, that’s the notes section in my cell phone, right? I’ve just like, I just might be something that I want to talk about. And by the time you’re like, so that thing anymore, but in the moment, it was a thing, right? Leslie, that helps too, if we can prove ourself from it a little, and it might not even be worth talking about, or if you’re 60s later and you’re still like, no, yeah, I’m gonna talk about it.

[00:24:38] Right? Yeah.

[00:24:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That’s a great idea though, to just be able to like chart it on a, however you’re going to write it down and then you can reflect on it and be like, was that me micromanaging? Because that’s definitely a problem in my relationship. I want things done a specific way and I’ve ultimately had to decide that if I really want it done that way, then I’m going to need to be the one that does it.

[00:24:58] Right. Yeah. We all learned that. We all learned that. I think with time.

[00:25:04] Stephanie Straub: And it’s harder about it. So I don’t. So when it comes to the holidays in my marriage, I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it because it was important that it be done a certain way. And I had a problem with the fact that, that my ex husband didn’t really contribute at the same level.

[00:25:22] It took years to go. But I could come back and be like, well, if you, right, right. So I couldn’t come back and say that. So that was my jurisdiction was happy to take that on as my jurisdiction. And there were other things that, that my partner did, but that’s okay too. Like you can hear things that are like, this is, I want this.

[00:25:42] But then we can’t complain that you’re the only one doing it.

[00:25:45] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. That happened early in our marriage with laundry. My husband wants laundry folded a specific way and I was like, God bless, enjoy the laundry. Because that was also a test that I was fine that he put off for a while. He could do it on the weekends.

[00:25:57] He was a teacher. So I didn’t care if laundry piled up. I wanted it clean so we could grab something out of the basket. But if he wanted to let it pile up and then, and then do a bunch of the loads on a specific day, that was fine. So I ran the laundry and he folded it and, and that worked out just fine because he was picky.

[00:26:12] We all have our picky things. I think a lot of times people think, Oh, it’s only the woman who has the picky things, but that is not the case at all. I don’t think

[00:26:19] Stephanie Straub: no, no, that, Oh no. I think we all have our, our stuff for sure. I think we all have our stuff for sure, but I, I like having. That time, like, that we prioritize to sit down and to talk about those things.

[00:26:33] Because if you’re somebody who maybe gets a little anxious, like, this bothers me and I need to share, I’m having a thought or an emotion, which means I obviously need to share it immediately in the moment, right? It doesn’t always work, right? Because we might be, like you said, might be emotional or reactive.

[00:26:49] So it’s that time later that we know we can address it should we feel like we need to. And that may bring some of that anxiety down in the moment, knowing, I do, I will have a space to address this later if I need to. For people, if they’re not maybe naturally inclined to bring stuff up on their own, provides them a platform to do that, where they don’t necessarily have to be the initiator of a potentially uncomfortable…

[00:27:16] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. So they sit down for the win. And especially, I think we have to then verbalize all those things that were in our brain, right? It’s not just the dental appointment, it’s scheduling the dentist appointment, having a trigger in our mind so the dental appointment needs to happen, and talking about those things if we’re not going to get the fair play cards.

[00:27:32] I don’t know how deep the fair play cards go, like, do they say schedule the dental appointment, take the dental appointment, or is it just like dental appointment?

[00:27:40] Stephanie Straub: I’m not entirely sure, like, I think it’s like dental appointments and then together you guys decide, like, what all of that entails.

[00:27:50] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: You know, but I think we have to be better about talking about all the mental things that come with whatever our task is.

[00:27:56] So I am the financial good person in our house. Like I do the taxes and I get everything in and sometimes my husband will just like, send me an email with attachment, whatever the file is, right? His W nine or whatever they’re called and I’m like, can you just put it in the drive? You know, and it would have taken him just as long to put it in the drive as it would to email me.

[00:28:17] But if he emails them to me, then I have to download, then upload, put it in the drive. Right. And so when we use our words to just say, Hey, this is the drive. When you get things, can you put it in there? That would be great. Right. Instead of just sucking it up and being angry about it.

[00:28:34] Stephanie Straub: Yep, exactly. Like how our roles change, whether it’s like a baby being born or, or a child going off to college is like another big like, this is where it’s now like, okay, I have time that I didn’t have before or a child driving or, or an illness or an ailing parent or something like that.

[00:28:54] The thing that goes unrecognized is, there’s a little bit of loss that goes, a lot of loss that is connected to these shifts and changes. And with any sort of loss. There can be the potential for feelings of so obviously lives change and shift and individuals change and shift and I think it’s okay to say, and look back both as an individual or with her of like, remember when we were kids, right, we were just dating and and we could just.

[00:29:31] Sleep in or eat cereal for dinner, or it was a lot easier to kind of be fun loving or impulsive. And some of those things have to change and there’s. Sometimes your sadness is connected to that. And sometimes your sadness is connected to watching our, our roles change and our partner’s roles change.

[00:29:55] That’s okay.

[00:29:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And I think that Sunday sit down is a great time to be like, doesn’t it kind of make you sad that we’re not chauffeuring her around anymore? Because I’m sure I might feel that I’m not going to feel it right now, right in the middle of it. But I’m sure. When I’m no longer in the car with her constantly hearing about all the boy problems at school, I’ll probably be a little bit sad that I don’t have that time anymore.

[00:30:15] I’ll also probably be a little bit happy and that’s okay too.

[00:30:18] Stephanie Straub: Right, right. I probably have some of the best conversations with my 14 year old in the car on the way to gymnastics. Yeah. Um, because yeah, there’s something about it that that’s just where we open up. And, um, right. And so we can have two feelings at the same time, same thing.

[00:30:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and this is especially true with a new baby. I think I was like, I don’t even know who I am. There was a person that I was just a few weeks ago, and that person is completely lost. And I don’t, I don’t, I’m never gonna find her again. I don’t know where she is. Right, because I just want to cry all the time and every thought in my whole life is about this baby and I have no idea what I’m doing and I used to be really competent at what I was doing.

[00:30:57] Stephanie Straub: Yeah. And again, I’m going to speak a little bit to kind of a cisgendered heterosexual partnership, but I do want to hold space for males who are conditioned that their job is to be the provider. And how that feels a lot heavier, and there’s a baby involved, and that’s scary, I think, for a lot of partners that have just started expanding their family, to feel like, okay.

[00:31:26] Now, it just all got real and now I have to provide as well. And right, wrong, or indifferent, that’s a stressful position to be in. So I want to hold space for that, that role changing of, you know.

[00:31:41] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And I see dads who have been really, you know, in the trenches with the mom the whole time. And when people are in labor, you see that dad just feels so helpless.

[00:31:50] Especially if things are going wrong. They don’t know if there’s anything they can do. They wish they could do something. They wish they had some, they, they, they have no control, right? There’s nothing. They just have to sort of sit there and watch and support, which they may or may not be good at anyway.

[00:32:04] Stephanie Straub: And so this sucks. So I think this is a three hour podcast, right? This happens in partnerships, any kind of relationships, but awful feeling. And I think childbirth, it’s probably. Maybe one of the worst spaces, but that that partners feel it of absolute helplessness. A lot of times people want to be problem solvers for the people that they love, right?

[00:32:29] Problem I want to solve it and they may come in with like suggestions or how can I fix it or whatever and that feels Invalidating to the person sharing the problem, right? But sometimes there is no there is no Solution to the problem like right other than delivering the baby, right that further can’t do anything, right?

[00:32:48] Well, you know, they can’t really do anything until that baby’s born like that’s that’s on mom You know, that’s on the birthing person. And so I think that that can be a real struggle when it comes to like, now, once that baby’s here, breastfeeding, what can the partner do where the skill will kind of empathy and validation is so, so there’s just getting in the hole with somebody, right?

[00:33:12] So a lot happens is, you know, some body that we care about is struggling. We, we kind of envision that they’re at the bottom of like this dark hole. And it’s like cold and damp and muddy and stinky and it’s just like right and it’s just blegh. Nobody wants to be in a hole. What we ought to do is we stand at the top of that hole down.

[00:33:34] We say valuable than that, right? Tell you in that, but it’s called power. Well, as you go in the hole with the person and you just sit with them and bear witness to how icky that hole really is. And. I’m really sorry, this is awful. This sucks, and I’m so sorry you’re going through it. So incredibly helpful. And it’s so, so simple yet, yet a lot of times our distress around watching the people that we love struggle prevents us from being able to just get in it with them and sit in it with them and just say, yeah, this is awful and you’re so sorry it’s happened to you.

[00:34:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: At what point do you decide you show them there’s a ladder in the hole or you think there’s a ladder, but the ladder may break, right? Or you can, you can easily jump out of the hole, right? Cause you have all this upper body strength because you work out or, you know. Right. They always struggle with the whole, let’s sit in the hole together.

[00:34:35] Like that’s usually what I start with is let’s sit in the hole together. But then if they seem so frustrated, I’m like, but there’s a ladder right here. Or you know, if you just learned to jump harder, you could get out of this hole or whatever.

[00:34:45] Stephanie Straub: Right. Well, I think, and this is as a kind of part of my role too, because like, right, I’ve got ladders, right.

[00:34:52] To help them, like, here are my degrees, right? Let me show you how to do it. Right. It has to be with their consent. So sometimes depending on the situation we’re sitting there and we, and just sitting there and hold them space and bearing witness empowers them enough to like, figure out how to climb their way out on their own, right?

[00:35:11] Suggestions wrong with offering that, but I think. It has to be with their thoughts about this. Are you interested? Right? Right. I mean, that would say, right? So I’m so sorry. It’s terrible. I wish I could help you. Right. Cause sometimes there’s nothing we can do to help. Right. Uh, I wish I could help you and you know, or I wish I had the perfect words for this or whatever.

[00:35:34] Like, so we could share that and sit in it with them and it was something that to feel like a potential solution to we, we feel like we’ve got a potential ladder to help now. Then we can all accept that. But again, they don’t have, they don’t have to consent to it. And that’s not personal. It feels personal.

[00:35:53] Like, why don’t you want my ladder? Why aren’t you interested in that? Right? It’s not personal. They’re insured. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so it, you can offer the ladder, but I would start with the validation and the getting in the hole. Then you can say, hey, if you’re interested in that, and then if they’re interested, then you can offer it.

[00:36:12] So

[00:36:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: that’s a great analogy of like getting in the hole with people and I think we have to do that with our partner because I think we’re real, real quick to be like, we’ve got a ladder to get out, you know, this situation that you are in with our kids, right? Well, I’m going to start with this,

[00:36:28] Stephanie Straub: like what I do, right?

[00:36:30] So these don’t just stay at the office, right? So I think, of course, I’ve got a ladder for everyone, my kids, my partner, my sister, my friend, the male, you know, I’ve got a ladder. Right. And so I really have, I really, really have to, and I’m sure you experiences maybe it with lots of things, but like, especially in the medical space of like, Oh, I know what to do about that.

[00:36:52] Right. Because that’s your, your expertise. And so, sometimes I really have to check my shuffle a bit around, like, to answer any of that.

[00:37:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I have to, as a nurse especially, I have to realize that my ladder just may not align with what they’re wanting, right? My ladder might be, why don’t you just get induced, when they are so adamant that they don’t want to be induced, right?

[00:37:10] So, my ladder is of no use to them, even though I figure that’s the ladder that could get them out of this hole.

[00:37:15] Stephanie Straub: Right, right.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:18] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Well, I love the idea of the Sunday sit down. I think that’s something that I’m going to implement for this. And I think no matter what your family looks like, that is something you could implement because especially as my kids get older, they’re taking some of the fair play cards of their own.

[00:37:33] I may need a comms place where I can be like, Hey, I noticed that you missed a couple of assignments this week. You know, is there, is there ways that I can support you better in that or, you know, with the husband where we miss a birthday party and some kids just totally, you know, taken back by that, you know, we can talk about how things got missed and it wasn’t going to take over.

[00:37:53] Right. Instead of in the moment being like, I told you,

[00:37:56] Stephanie Straub: yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it’s a useful tool, and for whatever reason, I suggested it, and I think people are a little resistant to it. But then the folks that do follow through on it come back, and I’ve never had somebody say, It wasn’t helpful. It wasn’t helpful.

[00:38:11] But it does, it does require intention. It does require intention, so.

[00:38:15] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: I gotta say, we did therapy after 2020, and I was shocked by how much of therapy is really just having a discussion. Together, because my husband doesn’t want to take less of the load than I do. That’s not the person that I married. He’s not looking to take the easy way out.

[00:38:29] He’s not looking to ignore my mental load. He simply just doesn’t see it like that’s not part of his, like who he is, right? And so the more I discuss it, the more he realizes, okay, this is something I can do. I realized that it’s just not something he saw, right? And there’s things I don’t see like home improvement.

[00:38:48] I’m like, that wall can stay chipped forever. I do not care. But to him, he’s like, well, we’re going to paint that, right?

[00:38:54] Stephanie Straub: Yes. Yeah. And I think, and I just saw something recently where a mother was talking about how she is teaching her children. The skill of notice and do notice and do, and I thought that was so great.

[00:39:10] Like, so rather than like a chore chart where there’s value in that for sure. But it was more of a, if you notice X, then do Y around that. So if you know that you took the last paper towel off the roll, the household expectation would be that you go, you get a. So I think that that’s a really great skill so that like the next generations were teaching that.

[00:39:40] Male and female and everything between that we’re teaching that. That’s what contributes to the the household as opposed to one person is the delegator of all the tasks and the seer of all the things. Yeah.

[00:39:54] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Well, and that’s awesome with kids, right? Because they might not realize that they have to get a birthday present.

[00:39:59] Right? So when the kid gets the invitation, then you sit down and you’re like, okay, we have a party on Friday. Can you go. Right? We have to look at the family calendar. Then we have, you know, going through the mental load steps instead of mom always being the one that’s like, I’m just going to grab the present while I’m at Target.

[00:40:14] We’re not even going to deal with it. But teaching kids those steps so that they realize how they can take on those things on their own. And then hopefully someday with these boys that I have, they are taking more of the mental load. And, you know, my husband is 6, 000 times better than his dad at all of these parenting tasks.

[00:40:31] My hope, and I think his hope also is that our boys are 6, 000 times better than he is so that we’re ultimately. Just making life a lot easier for everybody.

[00:40:39] Stephanie Straub: Absolutely. And again, I go back to, this is kind of how for generations, males and females have been kind of social, and moms and dads and all, right?

[00:40:49] And wives, husbands and wives, that’s how kind of we socialize. And so, it’s taking, it’s gonna take time to continue to undo that, and to kind of learn new ways, in the midst of a million other things changing in the world, right? And so, yes, while each generation gets better. Right? We can continue to build up for sure and influence the next generation.

[00:41:15] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And we’re all going to have missteps along the way, both of us, and we have to be, we have to allow that because we’re all just here learning. We’re all just people.

[00:41:23] Stephanie Straub: Yes, this is true. So I hope this is a takeaway, I hope there are little tidbits that folks use and you find valuable.

[00:41:32] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, I think there will be.

[00:41:33] And I got to tell people that I think this is something that absolutely every couple struggles with. Because we’re different people and shockingly, we can’t read each other’s minds, which is really annoying in a couple.

[00:41:44] Stephanie Straub: I mean, that’s probably a double edged sword. Sometimes I don’t want to know what’s going on, but, but I will say, and, and I may have shared this with you previously, but when I’m working with a newly postpartum mom who’s dealing with distress or depression, anxiety, or whatever the case may be, I know that they’re, that is starting to resolve when they start to come in and complain about it, right?

[00:42:07] That is normal, right? That is, I don’t know who I am. I don’t know who they are. I don’t know. There’s a couple, I don’t like, yes, that is what pretty much I would say every couple of months. After having a baby and bringing it to the home. So I always feel encouraged. I know they’re in a new brand of distress, but I’ve always encouraged, oh, that the original brand of distress that brought you in here, the depression and the anxiety is getting to be a little bit more resolved.

[00:42:34] It’s no longer our acute, acute, most pressing issue. If we’re coming in and just being like, gosh, I feel like I need to protect this. And he does. If it’s like, okay, yeah, okay. Get on with stuff. So yes,

[00:42:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: It’s very, very normal. If you’re out there thinking Hilary of 27 years has got this solved, I absolutely do not.

[00:42:53] And we, we still travel this bumpy road frequently in my house.

[00:42:57] Stephanie Straub: Yeah, for sure.

[00:42:57] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Stephanie, I think people need to follow you on TikTok. It’s mamatherapy, right?

[00:43:02] Stephanie Straub: Mamatherapy on TikTok. Yep.

[00:43:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. She gives such good little nuggets because I’m not in therapy currently, but I loved… I just saw one about grief and how grief, your life gets bigger and that makes grief a little bit smaller, but it’s still going to hit your pain button.

[00:43:15] And I was like, that is so perfect. So I think it’s so nice to get little nuggets of therapy. Well, I’m on TikTok from you, so I hope the people will follow you. Are you on Instagram, too? I mean, we all are, because who knows, by the time this airs, maybe TikTok will be a thing of the past.

[00:43:30] Stephanie Straub: Who knows? Who knows?

[00:43:31] I am on Instagram, and it’s just my name, Stephanie Straub, L C S W.

[00:43:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And we’ll link that in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for all the work that you do with moms and couples out there. I think it is a great work, and I’m so glad there are people out there like you.

[00:43:45] Stephanie Straub: Thank you, Hilary.

[00:43:46] This was a real delight. I appreciate it.

[00:43:48] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I just thought it was, I love that Sunday sit down because doing things when things are calm, which Sunday nights tend to be a little bit more calm at my house. Really makes such a different and when you’re like carving out time and it just happens every week, then it gives you that chance to say, Hey, this didn’t work out for me when things are calm.

[00:44:07] I think that’s such a good idea. I want to know what you guys took from the episode. Come find me over on Instagram where we can keep the discussion going. Tell me how you adjust to changes in marital roles. And if you have as many issues with it as I do, even though I’ve been married for what seems like a very long time, also a short time though, too.

[00:44:23] Thanks for being here with us.

[00:44:25] Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls Podcast today. If you liked today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

Marital roles, changes in relationship, mental load, postpartum, parenting, collaboration, Sunday sit down, task delegation, communication, partnership, life event changes, relationship dynamics, support system, emotional support, role adjustment, family routines, gender roles, household responsibilities, emotional check-in, mental health, parenting challenges, time management, calendar coordination, division of labor, problem-solving, relationship strategies, therapy, life balance, relationship growth, division of tasks.

The post Lessons in Partnership: Adapting to Changes in Marital Duties With Stephanie Straub of CNY Therapy Solutions appeared first on Pulling Curls.

How do I know so much about labor? Hello, I’m Hilary. A lot of you may know me as The Pregnancy Nurse®. I’ve been a nurse since 1997 and I have 20 years of labor and delivery experience. I have seen a lot of couples woefully prepared for labor, and I am here to help you fix that.

I also have a video on this too:

Of course, if you’re thinking — but I also need stuff for the baby (which is also very valid) I have a baby necessities checklist right here:

There are a few things the person giving birth can specifically do to prepare their body << I just wrote a super helpful post on that too, so don’t miss it!

Learn To Ask Questions

We spend our entire school life asking questions, but somehow we get into a healthcare setting and we seem to do a variety of things:

• We literally have no idea what they’re talking about and we don’t want to feel dumb.
• We figure they just know best and who are we to question
• We feel like a little kid and suddenly our normal proficient brain shuts off.

So, I encourage you ask question at your prenatal appointments. If you’re not doing this already, you can start now — no matter how many weeks you are.

If you’re thinking — I’m not even sure what to ask, Hilary? — let me give you a few to base your questions off of:

• What prenatal vitamin do you recommend? Honestly, they may not have one they love — but this is an easy one to start with. You might even get some good ideas of where to purchase a good one near you.

• What kind of testing do I have coming up? Again — you will feel very prepared as you learn you’ll have your glucose test soon, and GBS testing after that. This is a very valid question (as they may require a little time off work, etc).

• Am I still considered low-risk or are is there anything concerning you? I think a lot of people think they’re low-risk, only to find out that they actually have some high risk things like their age, weight, or blood pressures.

Let me be the one to tell you that it is AOK to ask things like:

• What is this testing for? Be it lab work, or an NST you want to know why you’re having it done, maybe a bit about how it works — but if you’re smart tip #3 in here will prepare you so well!
• Do we need to do this right now? I mean, some of them you do need to do it then (like glucose testing, etc) — but sometimes things can wait based off what you want.

Asking questions, especially in the calm of prenatal appointments prepares you to ask the BIG things in labor. You’ll build a rapport with your provider and you will remind your brain that you are in charge of your birth. Not anyone else.

Looking for more info on your provider — be sure to check out these posts:

• Tips To Saying No To Your Provider
• 6 Things Your Provider Does at Prenatal Appointments that Are Important
• 4 Things You Can Do to Prepare Your Cervix for Labor
• YOUR Birth Priorities: How to make them clear

Get On the Same Page

I mean you and your partner. So often I would ask couples simple things like:

• Who’s going to come to your birth?
• Where will baby be sleeping?
• Dad, you need to know how to diaper this baby too, right?

And I’d get looks showing that they were each thinking something very different.

For instance, sometimes your partner may think that if your mom is coming, theirs’s is coming too. Maybe they envision baby in a crib in the nursery from day one, but you already know they recommend baby be in your room (in their own safe sleep space) until 6 months.

You may also be thinking that you’ll share duties for this baby 50/50 — when they think you’ll continue to take care of this baby on the outside, like you have while it was inside.

One of the BIG ones I really recommend couples both know about are the postpartum warning signs.

It’s far too easy to be focused on that baby (especially mom) and ignore any warning signs for mom (who just had a big medical even of her own). I have a presentation that goes through them:

Also, I have good news that this helps with getting on the same page of your partner — more on this with the next tip!

Take a Birth Class

I think we get very used to the idea that your provider will prepare you for anything you need to know, but labor is a BIG event — not to mention raising that baby and living your life afterwards…

I get it, when my appendix perforated, I had not taken a class (although I do wish I was more prepared).

But you — you have time to get prepared! That is the beauty of pregnancy.

Studies show that those who take a birth class:

• Are less likely to have a C-section
• Are less likely to need an induction
• Have a better birth experience

I just have to say, are you ignoring this part of birth prep?

Or, did you take a class that didn’t feel like it told the whole story (many birth classes fall short, especially free ones). You want to be sure you take a class that covers:

• 3rd trimester testing
• Planned pregnancy events — like managing the pain, and how labor usually progresses
• Unplanned events like needing an induction, a cesarean or making tricky choices in labor
• Managing postpartum (and breastfeeding if you choose to do that).

I recommend this one (although with lots of other places including Baby List).

It covers all of the above, can be done in just three hours and is taught by an experienced RN who really knows what you need to know (and cuts out a lot of the fluff). I think you’re really going to love that you took it (in fact, it guarantees it).

Yes, there’s a lot to get prepared, but I think those are three things I see get missed a lot. They’re not often on baby prep checklists — but, if you need one of those too — grab mine here:

The post 3 Things to Prepare For Labor appeared first on Pulling Curls.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor Family Routines — to make room for important things like baby proofing, having the rest of your life in a routine totally helps!

Today’s guest is Dani Morin. She is a child safety advocate and CPST on social media. Helping parents make informed parenting decisions and providing product research to help moms make the perfect baby registry. Find her here: @Danimorin_ on IG and @danimorin13 on TikTok

Links for you:

Timestamps:

00:00 Necklace strangulation hazard led to tragedy.

03:27 Baltic amber teething necklaces: all risk, no benefit.

09:10 Struggles with safety advice for parent education.

11:24 Desiring family connection and appreciation for moms.

13:12 CPST instructor identified car seat errors.

18:02 Regularly check floor level for baby hazards.

22:01 Overprotective, balancing safety and learning experiences.

25:14 Anchor furniture to prevent tip-over incidents.

26:08 Millennials source furniture anywhere, anchoring optional.

32:11 Avoid outdated plastic; seek modern electrical options.

33:13 Avoid hazards: baby-proof, prevent falls, lock windows.

38:31 Keep detergent pods safe; store, don’t display.

41:21 Share safety tips; be open to feedback.

45:17 Balance mom worries with safety precautions.

48:44 Doctor advises against bedsharing; recommends separate sleeping arrangements.

51:33 AI prioritizes popular articles, not necessarily best.

53:43 Son’s low blood sugar led to NICU.

57:53 Dani moron 13 keeps humble TikTok presence.

59:12 Episode focused on friendship and parenting choices.

Keypoints:

• The episode is focused on baby safety and features Dani Morin, a car seat technician and TikTok influencer.
• Dani shares the tragic event of losing her son Deacon due to a Baltic amber teething necklace, which drives her advocacy.
• Baltic amber teething necklaces are shown to be ineffective and potentially dangerous, with some platforms banning their sale.
• The importance of anchoring furniture to prevent accidents is emphasized, as well as modern safety challenges with slim TVs and high-voltage cords.
• Dani discusses the concept of safe sleep practices and the risks involved with co-sleeping, advocating for strong safety standards.
• Baby-proofing is highlighted as a continuous, evolving process as children grow and develop new abilities.
• Both Hilary and Dani stress the importance of sourcing reliable, professional information over random online articles or AI-generated content.
• Dani uses the “shit sandwich” method to offer safety advice without coming across as judgmental or critical.
• The episode emphasizes creating supportive communities for new mothers to share information and provide emotional support.
• Safe storage of household items like laundry pods and electrical equipment is crucial to prevent accidents, with practical tips provided for parents.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript

[00:00:00.000] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 254, we are talking about baby safety. Let’s untangle it.

[00:00:09.320] – Hilary Erickson

Hi, I’m Hilary, a serial overcomplicator. I’m also a nurse, mom to three, and the curly head behind Pulling Curls and the Pregnancy Nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with Pregnancy and Parenting Untangled, the Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:00:29.690] – Hilary Erickson

This episode is sponsored by Family Routines. If you are looking to do things like baby safety, having routines that help you update your baby safety protocols and really be in a routine, Family Routines is going to help you get there. Family Routines is the course for you. Come get on some great routines with me.

[00:00:54.190] – Hilary Erickson

Super excited for today’s guest. She is a CPST, that’s a car seat tech on TikTok. She is great at helping parents make informed choices, especially about their baby registry. I want to introduce my friend, Dani Morin.

[00:01:06.600] – Hilary Erickson

Hey, Dani. Welcome to the Pulling Curls Podcast.

[00:01:08.760] – Dani Morin

Thanks for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I don’t know if people know how we know each other, but we got on TikTok, I think at the same exact time, in 2020, the Wild West of TikTok. But I sat next to you at a brand dinner with Aussie Bubs, and it was one of the funnest times. You are absolutely hilarious. I don’t know if people know how funny you actually are from your videos. You are so funny. It was one of the funnest nights that I had. So when you asked me to be on the podcast, I was like, automatically, we’re going to be talking about baby stuff, but I’m sure we could make it funny.

[00:01:44.090] – Hilary Erickson

And you were taking shots of infant formula, so you know it was a good time.

[00:01:48.230] – Dani Morin

No. That’s how you take shots these days as moms. Formula. It wasn’t bad.

[00:01:53.900] – Hilary Erickson

I could not do it.

[00:01:53.920] – Dani Morin

It wasn’t bad.

[00:01:55.610] – Dani Morin

It was the toddler formula. It wasn’t bad. Anything for the content.

[00:02:00.190] – Hilary Erickson

See, that’s why.

[00:02:02.080] – Dani Morin

Didn’t they bring out a shot ski?

[00:02:04.660] – Hilary Erickson

Yes, they had a flight. Yes. So, Dani, tell me a little bit about your history, why your heart is in children’s safety. I just want people to know just a snippet of why, because I think that’s really important as we go into this.

[00:02:20.930] – Dani Morin

Yeah. So this gets asked a lot, and I will do a little bit of a trigger warning if child loss is involved in here, but it is a huge part of my story. I could talk about the logistics, and I could talk about my son now. It’s been eight years, but my son, Deacon, my first child, he was strangled by a Baltic Amber teething necklace at his childcare.

[00:02:40.560] – Dani Morin

Logistically, I don’t know exactly how it happened. The childcare is watching too many people. Two things are true at the same time. The necklace was a strangulation hazard, and the daycare was not doing their job.

[00:02:52.700] – Dani Morin

And I lost him in October of 2016. Worst, I never thought I’d come out of it. And I decided maybe two years into it that I wanted to open up about my story. And this was a hard decision because I put a Baltic Amber teething necklace around his neck that I thought helped with teething. I was a very crunchy mom at the time. If you asked me what the AAP was, I would have shrugged and said I didn’t know. And these Baltic Amber teething necklaces, we do all these things to help our baby.

[00:03:27.970] – Dani Morin

We’re desperate to do anything to make our babies feel better. Not realizing that some of those things are just pure risk, which we know now. In 2008, a lot of people come to me and be like, Did you read all these studies? No, those studies came out in 2018 due to my son and other children that were strangled.

[00:03:45.240] – Dani Morin

Those studies came out and proved that Baltic Amber teething necklaces serve no purpose. The child’s temperature would have to be 392 degrees Fahrenheit for this acenic acid to even release. Your child would not be alive at 392 degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:04:00.130] – Dani Morin

It’s all risk and no benefit, and that’s where the messaging is. Those studies came out in 2018. These were very popular in 2014-2015. They’re still very popular now, believe it or not. You can’t get them on Etsy anymore. You can’t get them on Amazon anymore. They’re not sold in stores, but there are some boutique owners that will order them from Lithuania and so on.

[00:04:19.710] – Dani Morin

They’re still out there. They’re still being sold. So I try to do my best to warn parents, but I started going on the news. I started getting in parenting magazines and sharing my story, and it wasn’t getting me anywhere.

[00:04:33.740] – Dani Morin

And then TikTok came along, and I started just doing TikToks of my pregnancy. I was going to take it to the grave that I had ever lost a child because I was like, I don’t know. I saw how quickly some of these videos had taken off. And I had posted a video about how I had my son. So I DIYed my son. I ordered sperm from a sperm bank to my home and got pregnant. That’s a podcast on its own, if I’m I’m being honest.

[00:05:00.850] – Hilary Erickson

I really want to do a separate one about that. I really do. Yeah.

[00:05:04.590] – Dani Morin

Yeah. So that’s a podcast on its own. But I was met with three types of things, a bunch of people being like, this is wrong. I can’t believe you’re doing this, the American family. Everyone had so much to say. And I’m like, look, I’ve put so much thought into this.

[00:05:20.310] – Dani Morin

But I also didn’t think that people realized I was a single mom prior. I had been a mom before. And then I also had moms coming out and being like, I am 40 years old. I’m a lawyer. I thought I was going to have to go spend $40,000 on IVF. I didn’t know this was even an option. So I think I opened up a window of opportunity for moms that were… I had messages like, I was literally going to settle for the wrong guy because I wanted to have a baby. I broke up with him. I think I’m going to do this.

[00:05:45.020] – Dani Morin

And I made it very clear in that video, make sure you have the finances, make sure you have the means. I made it very clear.

[00:05:49.940] – Dani Morin

But I was met with a lot of criticism, and I was like, imagine if I come out and tell people that, hey, I was a mom before, I lost… And then the criticism that I would be met with.

[00:05:59.560] – Dani Morin

And I… Actually, there was a little bit of criticism.

[00:06:02.660] – Dani Morin

And now I post things for a certain reason. But there’s a lot of criticism when it comes to, I can’t believe that you put that around your child’s neck. Didn’t you read the studies?

[00:06:15.520] – Dani Morin

Or I got met with, I use this on my child and it’s perfectly fine. All three of my kids have used this and they’re fine. These actually really were. But then I was met with the most comments of, Thank you so much. This is getting removed right now. I would not have known this. How do you not share your story?

[00:06:32.180] – Dani Morin

And I realized then, I will continue to share my story for that third mom. You know what I mean? For those comments of, Thank you so much.

[00:06:41.510] – Dani Morin

Then it got into, well, if I’m talking about child safety and necklaces, what else should I be talking about? So I started sharing more baby proofing tips. I started sharing more on safe sleep, which is also controversial, which I did not realize was controversial.

[00:06:55.320] – Hilary Erickson

You get flamed for the safe sleep.

[00:06:56.740] – Dani Morin

Yeah, the safe sleep. And I think I was going to a TikTok actually this week. I think where it gets dangerous is there’s a lot of providers or sleep consultants and these experts where they do the meet the mom where they’re at mentality.

[00:07:11.390] – Dani Morin

So at some point in their motherhood journey, they have been told, I understand that you’re doing it. Let’s try to do it better. Whereas I would rather a provider come to me and be like, this is the statistic. If you sleep with your baby, this is the risk that you’re putting out there.

[00:07:27.390] – Dani Morin

There will never be a day that I’m going to tell you what doing is okay. I can feel for the lack of sleep. This has to be so difficult for you, and I could feel for that.

[00:07:36.780] – Dani Morin

But there will never be a day that I say this is okay because I’ve seen too many things. I think some providers are coming out and being like, well, let’s just try. They’re like, Okay, I’m being valid. It has to be okay, right? Because they’re like… So the meet the mom mentality, sometimes I… Even with the baby proofing and stuff like, Oh, okay.

[00:07:55.110] – Dani Morin

Well, just watch your kid then around that one if you don’t want to put the hole in the wall. It’s We can’t be doing that. I think the meeting the mom mentality for lactation consultants of really being like, I want you to breastfeed. I want this to be successful for you. We’re having some difficulty and your baby needs to be fed. So let’s meet in the middle here and come up with maybe a solution.

[00:08:15.780] – Dani Morin

But maybe that’s a situation. I’ve breastfed my kids for two years and almost three years, so it worked for me. But sometimes I think with the baby proofing and some of these other topics in the sleep where it’s like, we can’t just give you a couple of options and they’re all okay in some way.

[00:08:32.730] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, it’s tricky.

[00:08:34.510] – Dani Morin

It gets tricky. But I think validating a mom’s feeling of, yeah, I don’t want to put a hole in my wall either to put up a baby gate. This sucks. Or like, yeah, no, it sucks not sleeping. This stage of parenting sucks. Oh, my gosh. I totally understand where you’re at. You’re doing everything right now to feed your baby. I think validating them, but also giving out facts is also another thing.

[00:08:57.130] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, and there’s a big difference between how I share information on TikTok and how I talk to my singular patient that had a singular problem, right? Yeah. So it’s tricky. But TikTok is for everyone.

[00:09:10.960] – Dani Morin

And it’s so hard for me to remember that because sometimes I think that I will talk singular on some of my TikToks. When I became a CPST, so then I became a CPST, and I started working with moms in their car seats, we practice a good, better best. It’s what’s taught.

[00:09:28.790] – Dani Morin

And that is not on TikTok. I am like, this is how it is. So I asked them, how would you address this with a safe sleep thing? Like the good, better, best? They’re like, if someone says, oh, I’m doing the safe sleep seven, you could say, yeah, I guess that’s a safer way, but I will never say that it’s safe. It’s never going to be something that I say is safe.

[00:09:49.190] – Dani Morin

But yeah, is it safer than you sleeping on top of your baby? I guess. But I could never say that that is safe.

[00:09:55.150] – Dani Morin

So I’m like, okay, because how do you word that? But with car seats, you have a mom come in and she has her two-year-old forward-facing. And okay, so that’s good, right? And maybe the latches were a little loose, so we tighten those up. Okay, so that’s better.

[00:10:13.160] – Dani Morin

But then maybe the mom decides like, Okay, I heard what you have to say about rear-facing. I’m going to flip my car seat. Okay, that’s the best. But legally, she left maybe forward-facing with a tighter install. So that’s better than how she came.

[00:10:25.850] – Dani Morin

But by doing that, I’ve changed how I talk on TikTok. I think I was coming out like, there’s nothing you could say about teething necklaces that I’m ever going to be okay with. I still feel that way. But I changed. There’s nothing a mom could say to me that I’m not going to be able to have a comeback, especially on the teething necklaces. But I changed the approach, I feel like, or I’m putting in the effort.

[00:10:48.300] – Hilary Erickson

Well, I mean, we are not supporting parents enough in this world, right? I went back to work at six weeks with every single kid. First kid, I went back at five weeks. I was tired, and then I would go be a nurse somewhere. God bless those patients. Yeah.

[00:11:01.500] – Dani Morin

I mean, it’s so crazy.

[00:11:03.580] – Hilary Erickson

So we got to support mothers more. We have to be the village, including new moms. I see a lot of new moms who are like, well, I can’t support other new moms. I’m like, well, that is our village, is we’re all supporting each other. I’m not saying you’re two weeks postpartum taking a meal. I’m saying you have a one year old, you’re now part of the village that’s helping all these new moms. And I am old, so I’m definitely part of the village.

[00:11:24.520] – Dani Morin

Yeah, it’s crazy we don’t really have that. I’ve been blessed to have my mom in my life, but I know a lot of people live so far away from their families? You know what I mean? And I could not imagine that, but maybe it’s a military situation. So they have this great group of women that act as that.

[00:11:43.790] – Dani Morin

So I’ve seen different things like that. But I think really validating to moms, sometimes I just want my fiance to come home and be like, I realize you had a busy day. You did so much today. And I’m like, you know? You just want to be seen.

[00:11:55.560] – Dani Morin

So I understand that moms are like, I just want someone to notice that sleeping is really hard for me right now. And just say, I understand this sucks. You know what I mean? Or the breastfeeding, that is hard. Or just the sleep, and I miss my body. I’m in this awkward phase. And people just want to be validated and like, hey, me too. I’ve been there. You’re going to get through this. Today is hard. Even with grief, when people open up about their grief journeys or child loss and they’re like, hey, I’m having a day.

[00:12:28.810] – Dani Morin

I’m like, today is hard. I’m going to validate you. This has to be so hard. This is a hard day because it’s like, sometimes I think people just want to be validated. Yeah.

[00:12:38.280] – Hilary Erickson

Well, we should definitely say that upfront. There are things Dani is going to say on here that Hilary did not do as a parent because everybody knows my oldest is 24.

[00:12:46.030] – Hilary Erickson

So a lot of these things we didn’t even have or think about. So I’m not shaming you. There is no shame in this episode. This is like, you’re doing a good job. I think everyone that is listening to this podcast is doing a good job. Could we do a little bit better? That’s what we’re finding out today. This isn’t like, oh, I’m never going to make it. Yeah, you can make small changes.

[00:13:03.480] – Dani Morin

Small changes. And also, these are not things even that I’ve done. When I got my CPST certification, I had a CPST instructor check my own car seat and found mistakes.

[00:13:17.120] – Dani Morin

So I could go in here and find things that I didn’t do with my first that now I know better. So I totally… There’s just things that you’re not even going to know. I did a TikTok, yes, a couple of days ago about the kid in Utah that had the kernel that was playing in the pumpkin patch, and he got the kernel. I’m like, okay, here’s two videos of my son also playing in those year after year. I had no idea yet. I’ve made videos about why kids shouldn’t have popcorn. It’s just like, sometimes it takes other people’s stories to realize like, oh, my gosh.

[00:13:50.880] – Dani Morin

And I feel like the best form of parenting is listening to other stories and sometimes mistakes. And I shout out to moms that are willing to admit when they’ve made a mistake to help others because I wouldn’t be the parent I am today if it wasn’t for you guys and sharing your stories. Yeah.

[00:14:05.150] – Hilary Erickson

And shout out to Dani, because I’m sure it was extremely vulnerable to share that you bought the necklace.

[00:14:11.110] – Dani Morin

It was gifted to me, but it was on my registry. It’s something that I wanted. So it was the stamp of approval for the Crunchy Moms. If you didn’t have one, then you were science-based. That was not going to be me back then. Now-

[00:14:24.060] – Hilary Erickson

All my friends know I’m science-based, so they would just…

[00:14:27.000] – Dani Morin

It’s so funny, and I’ve made plenty of TikToks. The drastic change I went from making my own wipes in 2015 with, I think I was using like, grapeseed oil and like, lavender. I mean, I cloth-diapered.

[00:14:43.420] – Dani Morin

People like to throw in the breastfeeding as crunchy. I don’t. You know what I mean? But I did the barefoot thing, the cloth diapering, I did the essential oils. I did all of the the hand-making of everything. And it was so stressful to live that lifestyle, too. But that Baltic Amber teething necklace, that was a stamp of approval where you go in to Target and the other moms are like, yeah, I’m not toxic, too.

[00:15:11.090] – Dani Morin

But no, it’s just to look back. And now I’m so evidence-based, science-based. I follow people like you. I follow people like Dr. Frijes. I follow all the pediatricians, just thank God for them, right?

[00:15:25.680] – Dani Morin

So yeah, no shame here because I was that mom. I’ve done things right and I’ve done things wrong, and I continue to sometimes do things wrong, and I have to learn. So no shame.

[00:15:34.410] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, and I was the one shoving Highland’s teething tablets, which are no longer high.

[00:15:37.870] – Dani Morin

Yeah, I had no- So we…

[00:15:40.200] – Hilary Erickson

Shout out to everybody that’s just giving it a whirl. Yeah.

[00:15:42.440] – Dani Morin

Someone just did a video on teething and the science behind how teething happens and the discomfort and what it really is for babies. And it was pretty interesting. I’ll have to send it to you. But yeah, it was just-

[00:15:54.990] – Hilary Erickson

I am not sad. Not sad to not have teethers in my house.

[00:15:58.430] – Dani Morin

Yeah. I think the best thing I gave to Brett was a rolled up cloth. I would freeze a rolled up cloth. And that was the best thing. And I had the teethers and that was the best thing, I swear. People did the frozen-

[00:16:11.300] – Hilary Erickson

We did frozen waffles because it would catch the drool.

[00:16:14.360] – Dani Morin

I attempted the frozen waffle. The cloth seemed to work best, but the cloth also gets the drool, right?

[00:16:20.890] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, that’s true. Okay, so today we’re talking baby proofing. No shame out there if you don’t have these things done. And Dani and I were quickly talking about this before. And even if you have a teenager, there are different things I’m thinking when she was talking, I was like, I need a teen proof, my medicine cabinet, right? There’s a reason I probably shouldn’t have any Oxy anywhere near, right? Because you just never know. Liquor, things like that. So it’s a long range game. So let’s talk baby proofing or kid proofing.

[00:16:50.510] – Dani Morin

Well, I love that you started off with baby proofing for your teens. And the reason I like that is the one thing that I live by is baby proofing is ongoing. Now, I am not baby proofing certified. I work with them, but I’m not baby proofing certified. In order to do that, you actually have to own a baby proofing business.

[00:17:09.860] – Dani Morin

And in California, you have to have a contractor’s license to do that. So I’ll work with them on campaigns, they do like tip over awareness and stuff like that. And I’m involved with the baby proofers, but I’m not a certified baby proofer. I don’t go into people’s homes and baby proof them, but I can provide the information online. That’s what we’ll do today. But I love that you talked about your teens and baby proofing, because the funniest thing is it’s always ongoing.

[00:17:32.100] – Dani Morin

A perfect example of this is things that you would do before you come home from the hospital and things that you would do when your child steps up to that couch and does a little couch surfing for the first time is going to be completely different. A great example of this is you come home with your baby, you’re maybe six weeks in.

[00:17:52.610] – Dani Morin

All baby does is lay there in the bassinet and put baby to bed, mom and dad, grab a glass of wine and some popcorn. And have some time to themselves. But a couple months later, baby starts scooting around. So the best thing you could do is get down to the baby’s level. And what you might find under that couch where your little baby’s hand could fit is a popcorn kernel or something else that got under there that you couldn’t see, you couldn’t really reach. But when you get to their level, you could see that and you could reach that.

[00:18:22.360] – Dani Morin

So it’s one of those things to constantly do. And before you’re a parent, you’re like, maybe you vacuum under that couch when you move. That would be me. Or maybe it’s something you do twice a year. But when you have a scooter and a Crawler, that’s going to be something that you’re constantly doing is putting that vacuum device under there and really making sure that nothing got under there.

[00:18:43.340] – Dani Morin

But with an infant who’s just laying there, that’s probably something that you hadn’t really thought of before. When we get those babies who are couch surfing, if they could surf your couch, they could surf a toilet.

[00:18:55.600] – Dani Morin

And although we promote putting the toilet locks on the before you come home from the hospital, they’re a pain. You got to run to the bathroom. You don’t want to open it, but you want to make sure that those are on at that time. So I just put them on, get used to it. But if they could surf that couch, they could certainly surf your toilet.

[00:19:17.280] – Dani Morin

So it’s constantly ongoing. When they’re getting on their hands and knees, you should also get on their hands and knees. When they’re standing up, you should also stand up. And what are they reaching? What could they get into?

[00:19:27.400] – Dani Morin

Do you need to protect any corners at this time? Because now they’re hitting the tables or whatever it is. It’s constantly ongoing. So that’s my biggest thing.

[00:19:37.790] – Dani Morin

My second biggest thing is that every mom thinks we can’t fathom something bad happening to our kids. We see things on the news and it’s like, Hey, that could never be me. A kid gets hit on his bike without a helmet or something like that. Oh, my gosh.

[00:19:52.370] – Hilary Erickson

I’m the opposite of that mom.

[00:19:53.750] – Dani Morin

And I’m the opposite.

[00:19:55.450] – Hilary Erickson

I envisioned every single thing I saw bad in the hospital.

[00:19:58.520] – Dani Morin

I’m like, well- Because you have this personal tie to it, right? So for me, I’m like, I was the mom sitting in the comfort of my own home watching the news and being like, that could never happen to me. I feel so bad for that family.

[00:20:08.990] – Dani Morin

And until I was the girl on the news. You know what I mean? And then it’s like, wow. And I just did the Stop the Bleed class, and it was all nurses and doctors in there. It was so funny how desensitized… How- not desensitized, but that, Oh, yeah, we see this all the time. Like, oh, yeah, this happens. Oh, yeah. Then you’ll want to check a bullet wound, and I’m like, Oh, have you seen this before?

[00:20:32.510] – Dani Morin

Because as a normal mom, I can’t fathom. But our nurses and our doctors, when they see this stuff all the time, it is an automatic no-no, or it is an automatic pool gate, or is it automatic no trampoline roll? For our first responders that see this all the time, they understand. So I think for me as also a regular mom, but now I have the same mentality as you is actually, no, these things could happen because something happened to me before it could happen to me again.

[00:20:57.810] – Dani Morin

I try to put that mentality on the moms in TikTok. Please understand that this could happen to you. There are not rules. There’s no ASTM boards. There’s no CPSC for no reason. These things are in place because things have happened bad. Yeah.

[00:21:13.660] – Hilary Erickson

And a quick shout out for the fact that you literally can’t keep every accident from happening.

[00:21:18.500] – Dani Morin

You can’t. Exactly.

[00:21:19.460] – Hilary Erickson

Forever. You have to give your kid a driver’s license and let them drive. There’s parts of parenting where you have to let them try the bars, right?

[00:21:26.330] – Dani Morin

Well, it was funny because I think with my son, Deacon, And I was really this hippie mom and just free. And I think with my son, Rut, I was opposite, where I’ve almost sheltered him too much.

[00:21:41.400] – Dani Morin

I actually had a friend, her son jumped off the sink into a ball pit, and I about had a heart attack. And this is something that happens all the time. And she looked at me and she was like, has he ever in his life worn a bandaid?

[00:21:55.220] – Dani Morin

And I was like, he’s four years old, right? He’s never had a bandaid? I’ve never allowed him to get hurt. I’ve been scared for him to fall off his bike. And I’m like, a little bit, I have to let him inch out a little bit. And I have to let my paranoia like, oh, if my brother wanted to put him up on his shoulders, absolutely not.

[00:22:13.640] – Dani Morin

Because I just foresee all these things happening. So I’m getting myself to a place where I’m like, not let me let him get hurt, but it’s okay so that he can learn to ride a bike that he might get a couple of scrapes.

[00:22:27.850] – Dani Morin

I’m going to prevent it as much as I can, but I like to tell parents that think in my comments a lot of times, oh, just supervise your kid. You can do a teething necklace as long as you supervise your kid. You have to go to the bathroom. You have to. You have to fill up your water bottle. You’re going to have to mix that mac and cheese on the stove top. You have to change out your laundry. All of these things take 15, 20, maybe 1 to 2 to 3 to 5 minutes. And not saying that you’re a bad mom for doing those, you have to do those things.

[00:23:04.390] – Dani Morin

But that is just enough time for a strangulation to occur from a blind string. That’s just enough time for the baby to push over a baby gate because you didn’t want to bolt it into the wall. It’s just enough time for a TV to fall on a kid.

[00:23:19.660] – Dani Morin

So yes, we’re not saying you’re not supervising your kids, but nobody can supervise their child 100 % of the time 24/7. And these kids, they’re quick. They’re quick. So that’s just.. Understand that it’s like, no, we know you’re supervising your kid, but there’s the 15 seconds to a minute of time when you run out and you’re not. Not leaving the house, but run to the laundry room or turn around.

[00:23:51.910] – Hilary Erickson

Well, and I think there’s a lot of joy in parenting to know that you’ve created a safe space for your kids where they can explore every single DVD that I own, because back in the day, my kids wanted to pull out all the DVDs, all the books, right? They can explore that area and you know that you’ve baby proofed it as good as you could, and they can explore and do stuff. And you’re not constantly like, Oh, not that book. Oh, not that DVD.

[00:24:13.370] – Dani Morin

I love that, too. So We had done something in our house that a baby proofer had recommended, where I’m like, he constantly wants to be in the kitchen when I’m in the kitchen and play with the drawers. And she was like, find the furthest cabinet that’s not by the stove or anything and put his plastic plates in there. Let him organize those.

[00:24:31.520] – Dani Morin

So we did that where it’s like we moved up all the cleaning supplies, and that’s the one drawer that’s not locked because it’s baby proofed. He could pull it out. He could help mom put the dishes, his own things away. But Everything else I lock. And then I do like the magnet locks for the alcohol, for the medications and the vitamins, and those should be higher up.

[00:24:56.820] – Dani Morin

I do like the thought of pantry locks, and everyone will find one that they like. They really push those magnet ones, but I have lost the magnet key more times than I can count. No drinking in our house because you can’t even find the magnet key.

[00:25:13.250] – Hilary Erickson

Safety first.

[00:25:14.370] – Dani Morin

Yeah. So there’s little things that you could do in the kitchen. I think a big one that I think we should talk about is tipovers.

[00:25:23.700] – Dani Morin

I mean, the statistics on these tipover deaths and incidences is insane to me. I think it was America’s… It was part of the baby proofing group. They were running a campaign for Furniture of America or something like that.

[00:25:41.810] – Dani Morin

And the one rule, I think this is easy for moms to take with them is if it has a drawer, a door, or a shelf, it should be anchored to the wall. And it took them… So I was on a meeting with the baby proofing group a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about that it took 20 years for the furniture to get in through, I think, ASTM to have the anchor things on the back of furniture sold.

[00:26:08.800] – Dani Morin

But with that said, a lot of us, if you’re like me, Hey, I didn’t have all this money to be getting new furniture. I got some from my mom. I got some from grandma. I got some from Facebook marketplace, where you’re not going to have those anchor things on there to remind you to anchor that to the wall. I did get a dresser recently that did include that. Now it’s in law, but a lot of us millennials, we’re getting our furniture wherever we can.

[00:26:32.480] – Dani Morin

So it’s still something that… And there’s a ton of different anchoring systems that you could use, you go on Amazon or whatever, that you could use to anchor.

[00:26:41.590] – Dani Morin

Even at Walmart, they have a whole baby proofing section to anchor anything. And this could be your night stand that weighs 20 pounds. 20 pounds and a 10, 11, 12 pound infant, that’s nothing to mess around with.

[00:26:58.110] – Hilary Erickson

Is there a height? Because I didn’t do anything that was below waist height.

[00:27:02.400] – Dani Morin

So they actually do. That was one of my questions, and they actually recommend if it lands with a drawer, door, or shelf that it’s anchored. Now, I was just thinking like, oh, these tall shelves that I have in my room. Like, oh, yeah, I’ll just anchor those.

[00:27:16.290] – Dani Morin

They’re saying there are some incidences with a night stand.

[00:27:22.370] – Hilary Erickson

Kids are crazy out there.

[00:27:25.070] – Dani Morin

So just anchoring them. And people will say, it’s a rental or it’s my new house. I don’t want to put it. You could fix a hole in your wall, but you cannot fix the hole in your heart if something were to happen, especially on your watch. So just anchor them.

[00:27:41.200] – Dani Morin

These anchoring systems are really not that bad in your walls. And they have them for the mirrors. A lot of us girlies on the internet love our mirrors for our selfies. They have them for the mirrors. The TVs are a big one. I know in California, I think last year there was four deaths just from TV tipovers, at least in my state.

[00:27:58.320] – Dani Morin

So I’m a big fan of anchoring your TV to a wall, pay the professional $120. That’s typically what it costs.

[00:28:05.560] – Dani Morin

Get that anchored to your wall if possible. If not, you have to have it stand on some shelving system or whatever, make sure that you anchor that to a wall. There’s different rope anchors and stuff like that.

[00:28:18.450] – Dani Morin

They actually come with the TVs, typically. If you have to do that type of thing, I’m a big fan of anchoring it to the wall or mounting it to the wall if possible. But I believe anchor systems come in the packaging now for people that are going to stand it on a piece of furniture.

[00:28:35.970] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. I will say that even with teens, they just love to roughouse, just anchor it to the wall. It’s never going to get better. For sure.

[00:28:43.760] – Dani Morin

Yeah. So the furniture, working with the-

[00:28:47.130] – Hilary Erickson

And we lived in California, so we were always like, earthquake, too. It’s not just a kid climbing on it. They can tip over in an earthquake, too, like those two ones. So we’ve always been anchor-

[00:28:57.390] – Dani Morin

Yeah, big fan of that. And I think more people are doing that. I think back in the day we had, and this is just why baby proofing is constantly changing, is back in the day, it was those big, bulky TVs.

[00:29:08.990] – Dani Morin

Now we have these skinny, tall TVs that just fall over on top of our babies. And I see it all the time on TikTok and people making jokes about like, Oh, this almost fell on my baby. And I’m like, No, that’s really serious. That could have been really bad. People have died that way. So I’m a big fan of anchoring. I was not a fan of anchoring.

[00:29:30.930] – Hilary Erickson

And if you guys are big question mark over your brain, especially new parents, go to Home Depot and look at these options or Walmart, apparently. We always went to Home Depot.

[00:29:39.980] – Hilary Erickson

Look at the options, see which will work if you’re in a rental or if you’re in a home and you’re planning on being there for a long time, then anchor the heck to the stud, right? Just look at your different options because there are different options out there for anchoring these different things. It’s not just like… I just like to feel them with my hands and see exactly what the hole is going to be or whatever. Yeah.

[00:29:57.850] – Dani Morin

And there’s plenty of options They’re getting more innovative as they come. Another one that I wanted to talk about when we’re talking about how baby proofing has changed is our… Let me pull this out of another computer. Is our cords from our phones… So our phones and our computers, the amount of voltage that is going through these things, right? Think about having to put this into your computer or your phone. The amount of voltage is insane.

[00:30:28.430] – Dani Morin

We’ve never talked about this before. I don’t know if you follow Getty’s mom, but she’s a dentist. And they’ve been seeing, the dentists have been seeing all these kids and babies coming in because they’re chewing on these things. And the voltage, even if it’s unplugged, the voltage is still… shoots through there. So they’re burning the inside of their mouths and stuff. So she actually, she came up with this product called Watch Your Mouth.

[00:30:52.810] – Dani Morin

But it’s basically a product that goes… I have videos on this, but it’s a product that goes over the top of it. So whether it’s unplugged or not, they put this in their mouth, they’re fine.

[00:31:03.860] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. So people that are just listening, it just looks like the top of a travel to fresh cover.

[00:31:06.840] – Dani Morin

It looks like a travel to fresh cover. That’s probably how she figured this out. And it locks over your phone charger. And then when you’re using it, it still stays on. It still stays on there. But then you could put it in. So it’s just a reminder, hey, lock it up. But I guess they were seeing all these injuries. And it’s like, this is one of those things where it’s like, I would have never thought.

[00:31:29.280] – Dani Morin

Because I’ve grown up in this digital age, but this digital age compared to our parents or even 10, 20 years ago, and even the phones now, like the new iPhone 15 takes the same voltage, or whatever one it is, takes the new… I don’t know. Takes the same voltage as a computer.

[00:31:46.830] – Dani Morin

And that’s just one of those things. It could be really dangerous, and we just don’t think about it. Another thing to think about when we’re thinking about baby proofing and the new age is a lot of the new homes are being built with pre existing safety things for the electrical outlets. So they’re built like that, where you have to jiggle the plug in there and it opens it up. But your kid can’t get hurt. They’re built like that.

[00:32:11.990] – Dani Morin

So I’m in a new home build. But with that being said, if I didn’t know that and I went to shove in one of those plastic things, they’re not recommended at all anymore, that could harm me. You know what I mean? So there’s all these new types of electrical options out there that are not the plastic ones. We’re trying to stay away from that.

[00:32:33.010] – Dani Morin

I wouldn’t even know how to explain this one, so I’m not going to try. But there’s a lot of new ones out there that aren’t the plastic ones that are safety covers for outlets just because of things that we’ve learned, how our electricity is set up, what’s safe and what’s not.

[00:32:49.610] – Dani Morin

Something to ask your contractor or when you buy a new home, hey, what outlets are these? What baby proofing electrical things can I use? They should be be able to help you with that if you’re getting a new home, which I think a lot of pregnant moms, what do we get? New cars and new homes when a baby comes? Yeah.

[00:33:09.300] – Hilary Erickson

And your realtor also might have an idea. They know a lot about electricity that I’m always like, I didn’t know about them.

[00:33:14.330] – Dani Morin

So when I got my home, they’re like, make sure with your baby, you do not put in the plastic things. This is already baby proofed. And then I guess another big one is falls. So this is anything from falling downstairs, falling out windows. A couple of things that parents can do to avoid this, even outside of the baby proofing, is don’t put furniture where your kid can climb on it and fall off a banister. Don’t make it easy for them.

[00:33:43.520] – Dani Morin

So think about what would be a fun jungle gym for your kid and avoid that away from places that they could fall or away from the windows where they could climb out windows. I’m always a big fan of the… I don’t have one over here, but the window locks where you could lock the window from above so they can’t open it.

[00:34:01.620] – Dani Morin

But if you quickly needed to get out in a fire or something, that you could push it and slide it open, but your kid wouldn’t be able to do that. There’s a ton of window options, but that’s something we just do not think about. There’s window barriers. That’s a big one where it’s these bar things that they put up so that they can’t…

[00:34:21.390] – Dani Morin

Only you could open the window. You don’t think about window falls, but these things happen. I would say the biggest nuance and the hardest thing where you would almost need a baby proofer to come in, and every single household, for every listener right now, every single person listening, would need a different baby gate for their stairs.

[00:34:39.140] – Dani Morin

Every single house is designed differently. So there is a baby gate for everyone. It is not a one-size-fits-all. I’ll tell you one business I would not want to be in, the baby gate business.

[00:34:50.540] – Dani Morin

Because there’s no universal baby gate. It is so different by houses, by the width of your stairs, by what’s on the other side. It’s so different. But I would say the biggest thing is you really want to bolt those in. Those kids can push them down. So the suction ones, I know people love that, the tension ones, but you really want to get the gates that are bolted into the walls. That’s going to be, I would say, just do that. But this may be a situation you may want to call out a baby proofer or someone that specializes in those gates.

[00:35:27.190] – Dani Morin

If you have a weird house where you’re not going to fit the universal safety first ones at Target. And don’t feel like if you go bring one home and you’re like, wait, this isn’t working for me, don’t call it quits and say, okay, we’re going to have to be careful.

[00:35:39.810] – Dani Morin

There’s one out there for you. You just need to find it. And sometimes it’s, ordering and returning 15 from Amazon. I had to do that. So that’s the hardest part of baby proofing, I would say, is finding the gate, finding the gate that’s right for your home. It is the hardest part, but you’ll figure it out.

[00:35:59.160] – Hilary Erickson

Or maybe just finding a single story home.

[00:36:01.460] – Dani Morin

That’s where I’m at. We’re trying to move right now. I’m like, let’s just single story. That’s where it’s at, right? Yeah. And look, as moms, my hips at the end of the night hurt so bad that I don’t want to be walking upstairs. I’m 37, but I’m acting these days like I’m 67. Yeah, we’re in the market right now for a new house, and I’m like, let’s do this single story. That is where it’s at for a multitude of reasons. Yeah.

[00:36:28.060] – Hilary Erickson

I think a lot of people just don’t think about stairs when you’re purchasing the home, how that’s going to end up. Because we had a single story 1,100 square foot house with three kids in California, and then we moved to the double story. But luckily, my kid was old enough that I just supervised.

[00:36:42.770] – Dani Morin

Yeah. No, I supervised. I love when I get the comments on TikTok of like, Yeah, so we do that, but we supervise. And I’m like, Okay. As if I was telling everybody else that they’re a horrible parent. They don’t supervise.

[00:36:59.950] – Dani Morin

Yeah, these things could happen so quick. Another thing is, and this is the American Cleaning Institute. They are doing a lot of work undoing a trend right now, which is very interesting. So On TikTok in the past couple of years, so they are doing a lot…

[00:37:18.950] – Dani Morin

They’re doing like an anti-influenced campaign because of a trend that happened on TikTok. And you might know what I’m talking about, but it’s filling up the glass jars with the pods and filling up the glass jars with all of the laundry detergent things.

[00:37:34.420] – Dani Morin

Those look like candy to kids. And from that trend happening on TikTok… Look at TikTok, we could do TikTok for good all day long. The work that you and I do on TikTok is it’s great. But the work that the fancy influencers with the nice homes in Utah, what they’re doing in their laundry rooms, apparently it caused a little bit of an uptick in calls to the poison control.

[00:37:57.430] – Dani Morin

So it looks great. And I’m one of those moms where I’m like, oh, but it looks so cute to have this esthetically pleasing laundry room. I don’t believe in esthetically pleasing laundry rooms.

[00:38:08.040] – Dani Morin

I believe in… Those are the rooms where everything gets thrown into, right? When you shut the door. But no. So apparently it caused all this uptick and calls to the poison control because these kids were babies, where they look like candy.

[00:38:21.470] – Hilary Erickson

Right. And the Tide Pod thing at the store anymore has a baby proof. Well, and that’s the thing. If my dishwasher detergent, it’s hard to get into. It’s Hilary-proof at this point.

[00:38:30.870] – Dani Morin

Tide and Cascade. They did a lot of work on their own to try to undo this issue, where the pods now, the Tide Pods, if you really were to… It’s hard to break those things. Even if you were to bite on them, it’s pretty hard to break those things, but you never know.

[00:38:48.260] – Dani Morin

And they make safety locks on these products for a reason. And it’s so that you use them, not take the pods out and put them in a nice open glass container where they look like Halloween candy.

[00:39:00.880] – Dani Morin

So they’re trying to undo this issue that our fellow moms caused through a trend that became a thing. So a couple of things is put those pods, store them high. Don’t store them in glass. Store not decor, okay? Store not decor. So store them not in glass. Put them high up. If your kid wants to help with the laundry, take the wet clothes out and let the kid put the wet clothes in the dryer, right? Let them fold the towels. Let them participate. I’m all about letting kids participate in what you’re doing. I think that’s great for growth, but in a safe way.

[00:39:41.640] – Dani Morin

We don’t want them to see those pods either. So keep them stored high. When you get home from the grocery store, so a lot of incidents were happening where mom gets home from the grocery store and leaves everything out for a little bit on the sink and the kids were getting to them and things like that. Just storing them.

[00:39:59.420] – Dani Morin

A dad came came through our county and I was working a car seat event, and he came in with his kids, and he had maybe two and four in his car. And in the middle, he had just gotten some fabric fresheners, some Tide pods, and they were just in the car, and the kids were trying to play with them.

[00:40:22.340] – Dani Morin

So I was just saying, hey, this isn’t something you think of. I throw all this stuff in my car, too. I’m like, hey, these things, don’t put them around the kids. It’s like, they’re so easy. They look fun for them. They want to pop them. They want to eat them. So it’s just I had to do a little education for him, which he’s like, I didn’t even think about that. And I’m like, no, I wouldn’t have thought about it either.

[00:40:40.870] – Dani Morin

But American Cleaning Institute is running a big campaign right now, trying to get the word out that we are no longer storing our pods in glass jars. Yeah.

[00:40:49.120] – Hilary Erickson

And I’m here to say that that doesn’t last forever, right? Because I need my kids to get in and do their laundry. So we don’t make them… If you love that look, there is going to come a point in time where you can then again do that look until you have grandkids, and then you’re totally screwed again. So I don’t know.

[00:41:03.500] – Dani Morin

And if you do have teens and you want them to do their own laundry, just make sure they’re not doing the trends where they eat Tide pods. That was a thing, I think, in 2021. Yeah, that was crazy. But that’s It’s just these little things that we just don’t think. We think, oh, this is cute. We just don’t think about. Yeah.

[00:41:21.850] – Hilary Erickson

And I think the other thing we can think about as moms, when we’re at each other’s houses and we see something, I think we should not be afraid to be like, hey, I just saw on TikTok that they’re encouraging us not to put them in jars because kids are so attracted to that.

[00:41:36.390] – Hilary Erickson

And your friend might not have had zero clue. And hopefully you have friends that are willing to say that, and you’re willing to take that criticism and then decide if that’s something you want to do in your house. But if we share with each other, oh, I just saw that that’s unsafe, maybe we can save a life.

[00:41:51.560] – Dani Morin

So I’m so glad you brought up this topic, and tell me if I’m rambling, because I could stop talking. But how do we talk to our friends about things about safety? This is a question I get all the time. One of my best friends is using a teething necklace, so to speak.

[00:42:05.750] – Dani Morin

How do we talk to our friends? Because as moms, you say one thing that’s opposite than what I’m doing, I’m feeling attacked. Or, Hey, I just wanted to… That voice, even like, I’m feeling I’m attacked. I’m a bad mom. I don’t like that. This is uncomfortable for me. So I tell people to do something called the Shit Sandwich, where you go in and let’s say it’s the Tide pods, right? Oh, my gosh, girl, your laundry room. This is a dream laundry room. This is literally so cute. I cannot believe it. I want to copy everything and then go up to the pods and be like, Oh my gosh, I just saw this video actually of these babies or toddlers, climbed up and ate one. One ended up in the hospital. They’re trying to warn moms about this. And I’ll send it to you because I don’t know if you’ve seen it.

[00:42:53.190] – Dani Morin

Where the mom’s like, you’re kind of just, and oh my God, I didn’t even think about that. That’s what you want to hear, right? Sometimes they’ll be like, Yeah, I supervise. And then you just got to let it go. And then you finish up and being like, where did you get these towels? Are these Nordstrom? These are so cute. Walk away.

[00:43:10.970] – Dani Morin

So the teething necklace, I always tell parents to be like, your kid is so cute. Is her hair naturally that curly? Oh, my gosh, I dream. That’s so cute. I love that. And then, Hey, one of my friends, I always tell people to say, I’m your friend. One of my friends lost her son in one of those teething necklaces. I don’t know if you heard that story? And then, no, what happened? Oh my gosh, I’m going to take this off right now. Or it’s like, I heard it, but it’s like one or two babies died. It’s not… It was probably something else. It was the daycare.

[00:43:39.740] – Dani Morin

You got to move on from there. They know the story, they know the dangers. They’re going to do it anyways. But that’s one way to do it where you’re not coming in and being like, oh, this is your new laundry. Oh, girl. Those are bad. There’s a way to come about it. So you complement, right? So the shit sandwich, complement, criticize, compliment.

[00:43:59.290] – Hilary Erickson

Right. Like in HR, like when you’re a manager.

[00:44:02.300] – Dani Morin

Yeah. Yeah. It’s the same thing. So that has seemed to, I feel, work really well. Is that way of providing information.

[00:44:11.230] – Hilary Erickson

Well, and I always just come at… This is the paranoid nurse in me talking. That’s usually how I start the thing, and then just be like, I think you’re a great mom. I made so many mistakes as a mom.

[00:44:20.580] – Dani Morin

I had a mom with Rhett. She… On TikTok. I was pushing him in the stroller. He was buckled into his car seat, but it was very loose. And she reached out to me. This was the best thing she could have done. She was a CPST, and she was like, Hey, I’m a CPST. I have this little PowerPoint. I just wanted to send it to you and just see if maybe… Go through it and just see if you’re… It’s like a checklist, just like if it’s all the things that you’re doing when you’re putting him into the car seat.

[00:44:48.930] – Dani Morin

I was like, Sure, send it. But in my mind, I’m like, Oh, she’s trying to call me out on something. Send your little PowerPoint, right? I will go through. This is so dumb. People on TikTok are just criticizing me for every little thing. So I’m going through and I get to slide number nine. And I remember one through eight. I’m like, Do that. Do that. This is so stupid. I get to slide number nine, and it’s something called the pinch test, which is what CPSTs check. And if you could pinch that strap, it’s too loose.

[00:45:17.280] – Dani Morin

So I am like, oh, my gosh, I never tighten his straps that tight because I’m worried about his chest. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was like, you know what? I was rude. I didn’t thank you for that PowerPoint, but I She was not doing the pinching. She’s like, oh, I was hoping you’d see slide number nine. So you know what I mean?

[00:45:34.070] – Dani Morin

But I’m like, oh, my gosh, we get so worried about doing something wrong, that we’re a bad mom. But I’m like, there’s mom shaming and there’s life saving, and we need to make sure that we could differentiate the two. So you want to go shame a mom because she can’t breastfeed or she’s choosing not… That is shaming. You are shaming a mom. You want to tell a mom, Hey, I notice that you’re maybe not tightening your car seat much, here’s a PowerPoint, oh, my God, you may have just saved my baby’s life.

[00:46:03.980] – Dani Morin

Those are two different things. You shame a mom for going to work or not going to work, that is shaming. So as long as we know the difference between two, and I think when child safety is in a parenting choice, as it should be a parenting mandate for a lot of these things, especially when it comes to car seats.

[00:46:23.060] – Dani Morin

And that’s my personal opinion of what’s a parenting choice. Yeah, a parenting choice is whether we’re going to homeschool or not. That’s a parenting choice.

[00:46:33.510] – Dani Morin

A parenting mandate is like, we’re going to follow the law and make sure that our kid is rear facing till at least two years old. These are things that should be pretty black and white. But I think sometimes we just put into this bucket of, you’re mom shaming. And it’s like, no, we’re just warning because this could be a life saving situation.

[00:46:51.900] – Hilary Erickson

You just never know. And we all got to put down our hackles when people are like, oh, maybe you could do it this way. I get it. You’re You’re already overwhelmed as a parent. You have so much stuff on your plate. Sleep is a huge issue for new moms. You’re just like, I’m just trying to make it work for us, right?

[00:47:09.140] – Hilary Erickson

And just put it into like, okay, that’s some good information. Same for your pediatrician. Pediatricians are not out there to shame parents. They’re just giving information, and then you take it and you use it in your life however you’re going to see it. Because it does look different for everybody, right? Everybody’s baby gate’s different. Everyone, how you’re going to cover your electrical outlets is different. Everyone, how you’re going to tell your kids you shouldn’t do that is different.

[00:47:32.810] – Dani Morin

For sure. And I think with the pediatricians, too. I was thinking about it one day. I was so worried. My son, Brett, was in the lower… He was a nine pound, two ouncer when he was born. Both of my kids were. And I was so worried about… But he lost weight.

[00:47:47.490] – Dani Morin

So he’s always been in… At one point, he was in the third percentile. But I was like, it’s not that she’s shaming me, right? This is his weight. She’s not shaming me. And I I would go and even now I go to his birthday checkups, right? And I’m like, oh, what is she going to say about his weight? And it’s just like, okay, am I feeding him? Am I doing my best to feed him? And I’m giving him the vitamins that I’m being told and I’m doing all the things. I’m doing my best. Whatever his weight is, his weight is.

[00:48:16.010] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, and maybe she has some great tips that would work.

[00:48:18.900] – Dani Morin

And that’s the thing. So it was like, let me just be open to the cottage cheese and more olive oil. She’s always like, cottage cheese, man. I’m like, we don’t even have dairy in our house because I have a weird dairy allergy.

[00:48:31.620] – Dani Morin

But it’s just things like that where I’m like, I became more open. So the pediatrician is not shaming me as she’s giving me suggestions. But it is hard as a mom.

[00:48:40.960] – Dani Morin

With my first, I had started off co-sleeping because why not. And didn’t know… That’s the natural way. And the doctor was like, there’s never going to be a day I’m going to tell you that that’s safe. And I have a lot of moms that are like, how do I unco-sleep? And I’m like, that is one of the hardest things to do. But the fact that it’s in your mind, you’re going to get this. I had a mom reach out and she’s like, I just came across one of your videos about bed sharing. I was talking about one of my friends who had lost a baby. And she’s like, I don’t even know where to start. I don’t even have a pack and play.

[00:49:14.880] – Dani Morin

I sent her a pack and play. I’m like, Start with a pack and play. Put it by the bed. You don’t need a $500 crib. It’s just one of those things is it’s something like it’s unlearning some of these things where it’s just like you didn’t know. And I was in… The Facebook Mom groups that I was in, the best option was bed sharing. We’re saying co-sleeping, but we mean bed sharing. But the Facebook Mom groups that I’m in, that’s the best option.

[00:49:40.400] – Hilary Erickson

Because people that are safety-minded just don’t hang out there. We’d lose our minds. Yeah.

[00:49:43.940] – Dani Morin

And that’s the I think we have to understand that I could find an article to validate… You could find an article out there to validate anything that you believe in. You want to do meth and breastfeed? There’s an article out there to support that. I am sure of it. And that’s why… That was extreme.

[00:50:00.920] – Dani Morin

But that is why… But I swear, I’ve seen some crazy stuff. And that is why we stick to our pediatricians, the AAP recommendations, we stick to the professionals that are doing the work. You know what I mean? And that are doing the studies, the studies and the numbers. We stick to those people, not we googled, hey, is it okay for me to take four shots of tequila and breastfeed my baby?

[00:50:26.480] – Dani Morin

Because you will find Emily Oyster, she’ll say that’s okay. But you will find somebody out there to say that that’s totally fine. You will find people say, hey, how you feel is how your baby feels. I mean, you probably know more on that than I do. I don’t drink alcohol, so it’s nothing that I’ve come across. But I see this stuff and I’m like, what is the AAP and the professionals saying?

[00:50:48.000] – Hilary Erickson

Well, and the big problem is sometimes I have AI write an article for fun. Drinking in pregnancy, they were like, do it, get in there, drink during pregnancy. So it created the article. I just had it write it for fun. Not the article I used in case it happens on my website. But yeah, it was just like, Drinking is going to be great. It’ll help relax you during your pregnancy.

[00:51:10.510] – Hilary Erickson

And I was like, There is not a single institution, the ACOG, AAP, any of those people that say any amount of alcohol is safe during pregnancy. So AI just was like, sure. And then one time I was like, is sour cream safe in pregnancy? He had it write, and he was like, it will cause miscarriage and your baby will die. Well, and that- The problem is, those articles are getting written out there because that’s how people write articles anymore, is using AI.

[00:51:33.580] – Dani Morin

And AI, I think, is going off of some of these bigger, more searched or read articles. So it’s saying like, oh, these are more viewed. This must be the appropriate information.

[00:51:43.940] – Dani Morin

Where I did a TikTok to show people, if you type in AAP, it’s 10 down on the list on Google. They’re not running ads so that they’re the first thing to pop up.

[00:51:54.920] – Dani Morin

So if we were to type in, I would wish if people were to type in like, baby proofing that the baby proofers of America would pop up. But what’s going to happen is someone that’s coming up with some product that they’re trying to sell that’s maybe not the best.

[00:52:10.170] – Dani Morin

It’s just you really got to know, I think, and you should probably do an article on that, who are the people that I would follow or articles that I would read when it comes to breastfeeding? Where are the articles I would read when it comes to baby proofing? That would be a great article for you to write.

[00:52:25.280] – Hilary Erickson

Trusted people to follow because you really have to find a source that is not going to give you just pure-

[00:52:30.750] – Dani Morin

Yeah, for certain topics. Right now, and maybe I’m just landing on the side of TikTok is the home birth of it all. And I saw a video. I saw a video yesterday, and this was a dead serious video, and everybody agreed with her in the comments. The video was, what happens if my baby is born not breathing? And the doula, big time doula on TikTok was like, we do a meditation over the bait.

[00:52:57.720] – Hilary Erickson

You didn’t watch the whole thing, Dani. I saw your comment because she  said, just kidding. She said, just kidding.

[00:53:02.360] – Dani Morin

They do use. Oh my gosh, stop. Okay, you can’t… Okay. Oh my God. Literally, I was going to stitch the video because I was like, no, immediately blocked her. Okay. Why are they doing that?

[00:53:16.470] – Hilary Erickson

She did say that they do different things. But then some of the stuff she was saying, I was like, okay, I’ve never seen a baby come in with a UBC from home.

[00:53:24.490] – Dani Morin

Well, I scrolled through a little bit to see if there was a joke. And then I saw she said meditation, and then we have the mom just talk to the baby. And I was like, wait, no, could it never be me?

[00:53:35.590] – Hilary Erickson

Well, let me like, look at it. Let’s talk about trying to get a secure seal on the baby while the mom is like, if the baby’s on, don’t. You can’t.

[00:53:42.920] – Dani Morin

Yeah. Well, I had my son, Deacon, was born with the low blood sugar. At that time, I wanted to do a home… That was going to be the vibe, is a home birth or something. But he was born with a low blood sugar. And I remember the nurse being popping a bottle of formula in his mouth.

[00:54:00.470] – Dani Morin

And I was like, I’m breastfeeding! The pitchforks came out. I have an epidural, and I’m like, I want to fight this lady. And she was like, if we do not give this to him, he will die. Well, he gets taken to the NICU.

[00:54:12.020] – Dani Morin

And I asked the doctor who was stitching me up. I said, what would have happened had I had a home birth? Because how did they test for the blood sugar? He just like stitching me up. He’s like, yeah, I would have probably done.

[00:54:23.970] – Hilary Erickson

There is stuff you can tell. They get jittery and stuff.

[00:54:27.170] – Dani Morin

Yeah. Okay. So I was like, wait, what? Anyways, after that, I was like, I guess there’s just things you wouldn’t know. I have a friend that had the shoulder dystocia thing. I never heard of that before, actually.

[00:54:38.670] – Dani Morin

And so I’m like, wait, what? And there was five nurses pouncing on her or something. Obviously, I wasn’t there. So I was like, what happens if you have one person in the house? How do they get the baby out? So these fears have been instilled in me. And for that reason, I will have the closest room to the NICU. And as many doctors that want to in there as possible.

[00:55:02.180] – Hilary Erickson

That might not be the best room for you. You just never know. What’s the angle trying to get out of that room into the NICU? Sometimes you want a nice large angle.

[00:55:08.860] – Dani Morin

Yeah. I’m going to go and just really, God willing, I’m getting married in a week or so, and then the baby making is happening. So send me all the baby dust. But I’ll have to go to the hospital and just see what’s the quickest route.

[00:55:24.910] – Hilary Erickson

Ask the NICU nurses, which is the easiest one for you to get to?

[00:55:28.100] – Dani Morin

Yeah. I’m going to request. I’m going to put in a request.

[00:55:30.590] – Hilary Erickson

The thing is, most people don’t need that. No. That’s how baby proofing works. That’s how the hospital works. Most patients don’t need this. It’s just when we do need it, that’s why you need all the things. That’s why you need the baby proofing, because you literally cannot watch that baby. You can’t supervise them 24/7.

[00:55:48.450] – Dani Morin

I like to tell people these things are an insurance policy, right? We’d probably be perfectly fine. And not every baby that bed shares dies, right? It’s an insurance policy to to do these things. And maybe you don’t need to use it. We don’t hope to get in a crash. We don’t hope to be in a situation where something bad would happen or our kid would climb on the TV. We don’t hope to get ourselves in those situations.

[00:56:11.890] – Dani Morin

But in the chance we get in a car accident, we have car insurance. And by chance, our baby walks up the TV, like, it was mounted. So it’s just these things are just all insurance policies that we invest into and just in case. That’s how I like to describe it.

[00:56:31.760] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah. And somehow we all made it to adulthood, and I was laying on the bottom of the car as a kid. So I have no idea.

[00:56:38.040] – Dani Morin

Oh, yeah. My mom was like, we had these milk boxes and we just put the… My mom had one of eight. She’s like, we had the babies were put in the milk boxes with a little blanket right there, and we put them in the back of the Wagoneer. And we just put all the babies back there in the Wagoneer.

[00:56:54.820] – Dani Morin

And I’m like, okay, we have come a long way. So when people say, well, we’ve been doing this for ages. And I’m like, yeah, and for ages, people were dying. So for ages, we have been improving these things. But yeah, when my mom tells me the ways of how she grew up, I’m like, oh my God, this is crazy to me.

[00:57:15.850] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah, that’s why we put them in the car seat, just in case. All of this car seat is such a normal thing now. I wonder what things were like when they just started using car seats. But yeah, car seat is just one of the baby proofing things we do. Yeah.

[00:57:30.060] – Hilary Erickson

Thank you for coming on, Dani. I think this is going to be super helpful for new parents, pre-existing parents, because a lot of times when you have that baby, that toddler suddenly has access to a lot of stuff because you’re so busy. So it’s a great time to think about, oh, what can the other one get into now that I can’t supervise as well, right?

[00:57:47.810] – Dani Morin

Exactly.

[00:57:48.700] – Hilary Erickson

Yeah.

[00:57:49.060] – Dani Morin

Exactly.

[00:57:49.980] – Hilary Erickson

So find Dani. It’s @DaniMorin, right?

[00:57:52.960] – Dani Morin

Yeah. If you just type in @DaniMorin on TikTok or Instagram, I’ll pop up. You always know when someone started TikTok, not trying to be an influencer, when they got numbers behind their names. So I’m @DaniMorin13, just regular schmegular, whatever TikTok gave me at the time. And I just never changed it because I think it keeps me humble.

[00:58:13.670] – Dani Morin

I’ve come up with all these names that I wanted to name myself, the child advocate and stuff like that. And I’m like, you know what, DaniMorin13, that’s the name TikTok gave me. I’m sticking with it.

[00:58:24.690] – Hilary Erickson

You’re sticking with it.

[00:58:26.390] – Dani Morin

Yeah. So you could find me on the IG. If you have If you have questions, DM me on the IG. I don’t know what’s going on with TikTok. You know this, actually. I am not getting DMs there. So if you have a specific question, you want to send me a link to a baby proofing thing that you’re thinking of using, just shoot it over to me. Via a DM.

[00:58:46.050] – Hilary Erickson

On Instagram, not TikTok.

[00:58:47.300] – Dani Morin

On Instagram. Yes.

[00:58:49.150] – Hilary Erickson

All right. Good luck with your wedding. Good luck keeping us all informed. This doesn’t come out till the spring, so maybe you’ll already be pregnant by then and people can find you stressing out about pregnancy on social media.

[00:59:00.100] – Dani Morin

Yeah, I’ll have you do an update. Yeah.

[00:59:04.120] – Hilary Erickson

All right. Thanks, Dani.

[00:59:05.440] – Dani Morin

Awesome. Thank you so much for letting me come on and do what I do. In my son, Deacon’s name, it means a lot.

[00:59:12.750] – Hilary Erickson

Okay. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. It was a little longer than our usual one, but since Dani and I are friends, hopefully you guys enjoyed the banter because I hope you’re just thinking, I’m just sitting there with a friend and we’re trying to make good choices for our babies.

[00:59:24.670] – Hilary Erickson

And sometimes we don’t have all the information, but maybe a friend has some of the information. Again, not here to shame anybody. You’re looking at a mom who had baby bumpers, mobile right over the crib, probably cords. Who knows? I’m saying that we can do better than we’re doing today, hopefully, and hopefully that inspired you to do just that.

[00:59:43.120] – Hilary Erickson

Stay tuned. We are talking about taking a hospital tour next week, and then the week after that, we are talking about your smelly fridge, and I’m going to have some tips on making it smell better. So stay tuned.

[00:59:53.800] – Hilary Erickson

Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls Podcast today. If you liked today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow.

Keywords:

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